Naval's Latest Interview 2025

Happiness is being satish ed with what you have. Success comes from dissatisfaction. It's success. What is done if . 幸福在于满足于已有之物。成功源于永不满足。这就是成功。若已达成...

i'm not sure that statement is true anymore like I made this time in a long time ago. And a lot of these things are just note to myself, and they're highly contextual. They come in the moment to live, in the moment happiness. 我不确定这个观点现在是否依然成立，就像我很久以前写下这段话时那样。其中很多内容只是给自己的备忘，具有极强的时效性——它们诞生于特定时刻，活在当下，即时幸福。

okay. So very complicated topic. But I was like the soccer story where he goes into the marketplace and they show him all these luxuries. 这是个相当复杂的话题。让我想起那个苏格拉底的故事：当他走进市集，人们向他展示各种奢侈品时...

And fine reason, he says, how many things there are in this world that I do not want, and that's a form of freedom. So not wanting something is as good as having IT. In the old story with Alexander diagnosis, right? Alexander goes out and conquers the world that he meets. 这位哲人说道："世间有多少东西是我不需要的"，这本身就是一种自由。不渴望某物与拥有它同样珍贵。就像古代亚历山大大帝的故事——他征服世界后遇见第欧根尼，对吧？

Diameter is living in a barrel and diameter is says, get out of the way you're blocking my son and Alexander says, oh, how I wish how you know could be like diameter is in the next life and dynastic is that's a difference. I don't wish that I could so that says, wish to be Alexander so two pads to happiness and uh, one paris for success. You get what you want to satisfy your material needs or like diogenes, you just don't want in the first place. 第欧根尼住在木桶里，他喊道："让开，你挡住我的阳光了！"亚历山大却说："来世我多么希望能成为第欧根尼啊。"而第欧根尼回应："这就是我们的区别——我根本不想成为亚历山大。"通往幸福有两条路：要么像亚历山大那样追逐成功来满足物质欲望，要么像第欧根尼那样从一开始就无欲无求。

And i'm not sure which one is more valid. And IT also depends to define success if the end goal is happiness, then why not cut to the chase and just go straight for IT? Uh, does being happy make you less successful? That is a conventional wisdom that may even be the practical earned experience of your reality. 我不确定哪种方式更有意义。这也取决于如何定义成功——如果终极目标是幸福，何不直接追求幸福本身？难道快乐会让你变得不够成功吗？这种传统观念或许正是现实给我们的深刻教训。

You find that when you're a happy, you don't want anything so you don't get up and do anything. On the other hand, you know, you still got to do something. You are animal. 你会发现，当感到满足时就会失去奋斗动力；但另一方面，人终究需要行动。因为我们是动物啊。

You're here. You're here to survive. You here to replicate your driven. 你存在于世。你要生存。你要繁衍后代。这是本能驱使。

You're motivated. You're gonna something. You're not just going to sit there all day. Unlikely some people do. Maybe it's in their nature, but I think most people still want to act. They want to live in the arena. 你充满干劲。你决心有所作为。你不会整天无所事事地坐着。不像某些人那样。也许这是他们的天性，但我认为大多数人仍然渴望行动。他们想在竞技场中拼搏。

I found for myself, as i've become uh, happier is a big word, but you know more peaceful, more calm, more present, more, uh, satisfied with what I have, uh, I still want to do things. I just want to do Better things. I want to do things that are more pure, more a line with, uh, what I think needs to be done and what I can uniquely do. So in that sense, I think that being happier can actually make you more successful, but your definition of successful will likely change along the way. 就我个人而言，随着我变得——用"快乐"这个词可能有点大——但确实更平和、更从容、更活在当下、对现有的一切更满足时，我依然想做事。只是现在想做更好的事。我想做更纯粹的事，更符合我认为需要完成且只有我能独特完成的事。从这个意义上说，我认为变得更快乐实际上能让你更成功，不过你对成功的定义很可能在这个过程中发生改变。

Is that a realization you think you could have gotten to how you have not had some success in the first place? 你觉得如果没有先取得一些成就，你能否领悟到这个道理？

At least for me, I always wanted to take the path of material success first. I was not going to go be anesthetic and sit there and renounce everything that just seems too unreliable and too painful ah in the story of buda, he starts out as a prince and then he sees that it's all kind of meaningless because you're still gonna old and die and then he goes into the woods looking for something more. I'll take the happy route that involves a material success. Thank you. 至少对我来说，我一直想先走物质成功的道路。我不打算像佛陀故事里那样麻醉自己，坐在那里放弃一切——那看起来太不可靠也太痛苦了。佛陀起初是个王子，后来发现这一切都毫无意义，因为人终究会衰老死亡，于是他走进森林寻求更高境界。而我会选择那条包含物质成就的幸福之路。谢谢。

I think it's quicker in some ways. One of your insights far easy to achieve our material desires, that is, to announce them IT . 我认为在某些方面这样更快。你的一个深刻见解是：实现物质欲望其实很简单，那就是公开宣告它们。

depends on the person. But II think you have to try the path. If you want something, go get IT. Uh, no, I, I, I quip that the reason to win the game is to be free of IT. So you you play the games, you win the games and then you get hopefully get bored of the games. You don't want to just keep looping on the same game over and over, although a lot of these games are very enticing and have many levels in a relatively open ended, uh, and then you become free of the game, uh, in a sense that you're no longer trying to win IT. You know you can win IT and either you move to a different game or you play the game . 这取决于个人。但我认为你必须尝试这条路。若有所求，就去争取。呃不，我常开玩笑说，赢得游戏的目的是为了摆脱它。所以你玩游戏、赢得游戏，最终希望能对游戏感到厌倦。你不想反复沉迷于同一款游戏，尽管很多游戏极具诱惑力，拥有相对开放的多个关卡...而后你就能从游戏中解脱，某种意义上你不再执着于取胜。你明白自己能够获胜，于是要么转战其他游戏，要么纯粹为乐趣而玩。

for the sheer joy of IT yeah, you another one of yours. Most of the gains in life come from suffering in the short term, so I can get paid in the long term. I think classic winning the Marshall test, yeah, on a daily basis. 纯粹为了享受乐趣对吧？你另一个观点是：人生多数收获都源于短期受苦，以换取长期回报。我觉得这就像经典的马歇尔测试，每天都在验证这个道理。

But there's an interesting chAllenge where I think people need to avoid becoming AA suffering addict, sort of using suffering as the proxy for progress as opposed to the outcome of the suffering, right? It's like I was in pain not eating the marshmallow. I was in pain doing this work. I have attached well being and satisfaction to pain, not to what the pain gets me on the other side of IT. 但这里有个耐人寻味的挑战——人们需要避免沦为"痛苦成瘾者"，错把煎熬当作进步的代名词，而非煎熬带来的成果，明白吗？就像我忍着不吃棉花糖时感到痛苦，埋头苦干时也感到痛苦。我把幸福感和满足感与痛苦本身绑定，而非痛苦彼岸的收获。

If you define pain as physical pain, then it's a real thing that happens. And you can ignore IT. But that's not what we mean by suffering. 若将疼痛定义为生理痛感，那确实是真实存在的感受。你可以选择忽略它。但这并非我们所说的"煎熬"。

Suffering is mostly mental anguish and mental pain and IT just means you don't want to do the task at hand. Uh, if you were fine doing the task at hand, then wouldn't be sufficing. And then the question is, what's more effective to suffer along the way or just to interpret IT in the way that is not suffering. 煎熬更多是精神层面的折磨与苦楚，它只意味着你抗拒手头的任务。呃，如果你甘之如饴地执行任务，那就谈不上煎熬了。于是问题来了：是全程硬扛着煎熬更有效，还是直接转换思维根本不觉其苦更明智？

You hear from a lot of successful people, they look back and they say all the journey was a fun part, right? That was actually the entertaining part I should have enjoy IT more. It's a common regret. Uh, there's a little thought exercise i'll like to do, which is you can go back into your own life and try to put yourself in the exact position you are in five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago. And you try to remember, okay, who was I weird? What was I doing? What was I feeling? All of my emotions, all of my objectives, and really, really try to transport yourself back and see if there's any advice to give yourself anything you do differently. 许多成功人士回首往事时都会说，整个奋斗过程才是最有趣的，对吧？那段时光本应更享受才对——这是种普遍的遗憾。我常做个小思维实验：试着穿越回五年前、十年前、十五年前甚至二十年前的自己。你要努力回忆：当时的自己有多青涩？在做什么事？怀着怎样的心情？调动所有情绪记忆和目标指向，真正把自己投射回过去，看看能否给当年的自己任何建议，或是做出不同选择。

Now you don't have new information. Don't pretend you could have gone back in. You bought a stock or bought big corner, whatever. But just knowing what you know now in terms of you, your temperament and a little bit of age related experience, how would you've done things differently? And I think it's a worthwhile excise to do. So don't let me rob you of the conclusion but i'll tell you for me ah, I would have done everything the same except I would have done IT with less anger, less emotion, less internal suffering because I was option AI wasn't necessary and I would argue that someone who can do the job, uh, at least peacefully, but maybe happily, is going to be more effective than someone who has a nessy emotional . 你现在并没有新的信息。别假装你本可以重新来过。不管你是买了股票还是大举押注某个领域。但根据你现在的认知、你的性格特点以及些许与年龄相关的经验，你会采取哪些不同的做法？我认为这是个值得深思的练习。别让我替你得出结论，但就我而言——我会做出完全相同的选择，只是会减少愤怒、降低情绪波动、减轻内心煎熬，因为那些焦虑本无必要。我敢说，能以至少平和、甚至愉悦心态完成工作的人，会比那些被负面情绪裹挟的人更高效。

and where you end up with a series of miserable successes, right? The outcome may have been the same, but the entire experience of getting that and in the journey . 最终你收获的是一连串痛苦的胜利，对吧？结果或许相同，但整个达成目标的过程和旅途体验却截然不同。

is not only the reward, the journey, the thing there is, you know, even success is human nature to bank IT very, very quickly, right? Because a Normal loop that we run through as you sit around your board, then you want something, then when you want something, you decide you're not going to be happy until you get that thing. Then you start your out of suffering or anticipation while you strive to get that thing. 追求目标的过程本身就是意义所在，而非仅是结果。要知道，即便是成功带来的喜悦，人类天性也会很快将其视为理所当然。我们通常陷入这样的循环：当你坐在会议室里渴望某样东西时，就会认定只有得到它才能快乐。于是你开始经历煎熬或期待，拼命追逐那个目标。

If you get that thing, then you get used to IT and then you get bored again. Then a few months later, you want something else. And if you don't get IT, then you're unhappy for a bit, then you get over IT, then you want something else, right? That's the Normal cycle. 若你最终如愿以偿，很快便会习以为常，继而感到厌倦。几个月后，你又会产生新的渴望。倘若未能达成目标，短暂沮丧后你也会释怀，转而追求其他事物。这就是常态的循环。

So whether you're happy, you're unhappy at the end, IT tends not to last. Now I don't want to be global and say that, oh, there is no point in making money or be successful. There absolutely is. 因此无论结局是喜是悲，这种情绪往往难以持久。我并非要全盘否定——绝不是说赚钱或追求成功毫无意义。它们当然重要。

Money solves all your money problems. So IT is good to have money. Um that said, there are those uh those stories. I think those studies, I don't know how real these are, all these site studies don't, but it's a fun, fun little study that shows that a people who break their back and people who win the lottery are back to their baseline happiness two years later. Again, I don't know this entirely true. 金钱能解决你所有的财务困境。所以拥有财富是件好事。不过话说回来，总有些研究案例——虽然我不确定这些调查数据的真实性，毕竟网络研究往往靠不住——但有个有趣的调查显示：无论是拼命工作的人还是彩票中奖者，两年后都会回归原有的幸福基准线。当然，我并不完全确信这个结论。

I think money can buy you happiness if you earned IT, because then along the way, you have both pride and confidence in yourself and you have a sense of accomplishment and you, you know, set out to do something, and you are right. So II bet that lingers. And then as I said, money solves money problems. 我认为通过努力赚取的金钱确实能带来幸福，因为在这个过程中，你会获得自豪感与自信心，体会到成就感——当你设定目标并最终实现时，这种满足感会持续发酵。正如我所说，金钱能解决金钱引发的问题。

I don't want to be too glad about IT, but I would say in general this this loop that we runs through um of desire, dopamine, fulfilled men, unfulfilled men, you have to enjoy the journey. The journey is all there is right. Nine and nine percent time was spent on the journey. So what kind of a journey is that if you're . 虽然不想过分乐观，但我们必须承认：人类始终困在欲望-多巴胺-满足-空虚的循环里。关键在于享受奋斗的过程，因为人生本就是一场旅程。我们 99%的时间都耗费在路上，若不能乐在其中，这样的征程又有何意义？

not going to enjoy IT, how do you sure cut that desire contract? 若无法享受这个过程，又如何打破欲望的枷锁呢？

You could focus you could decide that I don't want most things. I think we have a lot of unnecessary desires that we just pick up everywhere. We have opinions on everything, judgements and everything. 你可以选择专注，决定自己不需要大多数东西。我认为我们有很多不必要的欲望，只是随处沾染而来。我们对每件事都有看法、评判和执念。

So I think just knowing that those are the source of unhappiness，uh, will make you be choosy about your desires. And Frankly, if you want to be successful, you have to be choose about your desirs. You have to focus. 所以我认为，只要意识到这些正是痛苦的根源，呃，就会让你对欲望有所取舍。坦白说，若想成功，就必须对欲望精挑细选。你必须保持专注。

you can't be graded. 你无法在所有事上都出类拔萃。

Everything you can be great. Everything you to waste energy and . 若想事事精通，只会浪费精力徒劳无功。

waste time is famous, worthwhile. Go. 浪费时间也能出名，值得一试。来吧。

uh, IT gets you invite you to Better parties, gets you to Better restaurants. A fame. So fame is this funny thing where a lot of people know you but you don't know them. 呃，IT（信息技术）能让你受邀参加更高级的派对，带你去更高级的餐厅。这就是名气。名气这玩意儿挺有意思——很多人认识你，你却对他们一无所知。

And a IT does get you put in pedestal IT can get you what you want at a at a distance. So I wouldn't say it's worthless. Obviously people wanted for a reason um it's high status. So IT attracts the opposite sex, especially for many attracts a women uh that said, IT is high cost IT means you have no privacy um you do have weird and little tics. Uh you do get hit up a lot for weird things and you're on a stage so you're forced to perform so you're force to be consistent with your past proclamations and actions. And you gonna have haters and all that concise, but the fact that we do IT, the fact that we all seem to want IT, means that IT would be discontinuous to say, I don't know, i'm famous, but you don't want to be famous that said, I think fame like anything else, is best produced as a or pursued as a by product of something potentially more worthwhile um wanting to be famous and craving to be famous and being famous for being famous. IT 确实能把你捧上神坛，让你隔空获得想要的东西。所以不能说它毫无价值。显然人们追求它是有原因的，嗯...这是高社会地位的象征。它能吸引异性，尤其对多数男性而言能吸引女性。不过话说回来，IT 的代价很高——意味着你毫无隐私，还会养成些古怪的小习惯。你会频繁遭遇各种奇葩请求，就像活在舞台上被迫表演，必须保持与过往言行的一致性。还会有黑粉什么的...但重点是我们都在追逐 IT，似乎人人都想要 IT，这就很矛盾——比如有人说"我出名了但不想出名"。我认为名气和其他东西一样，最好是作为更有价值事物的副产品来创造或追求...单纯为出名而渴望出名，或仅以出名而闻名。

These are sort of traps fame for . 这些某种程度上都是名气的陷阱。

some sake yeah exactly. So it's Better than its own thing. Uh, so for example, own respect in the as you do things that are good for the tribe, uh, who are the most famous people in human history? 确实如此。所以这比单纯追求个人成就更有意义。比如说，当你做一些对群体有益的事情时，就会赢得尊重——人类历史上最著名的人物都是谁呢？

Uh, there are you know there there are people who sort of transcended themself, the budders and the jesus in the mohamad of the world. Who else is famous? Uh, the artists are famous. 那些超越自我的人会被铭记，比如佛陀、耶稣和穆罕默德这样的世界级人物。还有哪些名人？艺术家也很出名。

You know, art last for a long time. The scientists are famous. They discover thing. The congress are famous, present because they conquered for their tribe. There was someone that they were fighting for. 要知道，艺术作品能流传千古。科学家因发现真理而闻名。征服者为部落征战四方而青史留名，他们背后都有为之奋斗的群体。

So generally the higher up by doing things for greater and greater groups of people, even though IT may be considered tyrannical or negative, like you know, JK as famous, but uh, to the mongols, he was doing good to the rest of them, not so much. A the higher level you're Operating at, the more people you're taking care of, the more you sort of earned respect and fame. And I think those are good reasons to be famous. 通常来说，你惠及的群体规模越大——即便可能被外界视为暴君或负面人物，比如成吉思汗对蒙古人是英雄，对其他民族则不然——所处的层次越高，关照的人群越广，就越能赢得尊重与声望。我认为这些才是成名的正当理由。

If fame is empty, if your fame is just because your name showed up in a lot of places or your face showed up in a lot of places, then that's a holo fame. And I think deep down you will know that. And so be fragile and you'll be afraid of losing IT, and then you'll be force to perform. 若虚名仅是因姓名频繁出现或面孔随处可见而得，那不过是虚幻的声名。我想你心底自会明了。因此你会变得脆弱，唯恐失去它，继而被迫表演。

So the kind of fame that uh, pure actors and celebrities have, I wouldn't want, but the kind of fame that's earn because you did something useful. A why dodge that? No, you can. 纯粹的演员与名流所拥有的那种声名，我绝不向往；但若因做出有益之事而赢得的声誉，何必回避？不，你大可坦然接受。

This is a chAllenge, I think, especially if people make very loud public proclamations about things mentioned there about um you're almost a hostage to the things that used to say that um being able to update your opinions and change your mind you looks very similar to the internet as hypocrisy does you know the difference between me saying something in the past and saying something different now is perhaps i've learned, perhaps i've updated my believing, right? But so few people do IT in a legitimate way. 这确实是个挑战，尤其当人们针对某些事高调发表公开声明时——你会沦为过往言论的人质。在互联网眼中，更新观点与改变立场看起来与虚伪无异。要知道，我今日所言与昔日不同，或许只因我已有所领悟、更新了信念，对吗？但能以正当方式做到这点的人实在寥寥。

I think that the grifter shell you see, this is the smoking gun that shows that he didn't really believe that thing all along. And yeah, II went to a retreat in LA. A couple of years ago and there was a guy that used to follow the but big business and productivity advice content creator really, really successful. And you just told this step back from everything like monk mode and focused on his business and asking wine, he said, I started feeling like I had to live up to in private the things that I was saying in public. right? 我认为你看到的这个骗子外壳，就是证明他从未真正相信那件事的铁证。几年前我参加过洛杉矶的一个静修会，有个曾经追随商业大佬的内容创作者——专门做生产力建议类内容，做得非常成功。他后来退出一切进入"僧侣模式"专注事业，喝着红酒说："我开始觉得私下必须活成公开宣称的样子"，明白吗？

Yeah, it's a what was that? Who said he was a mankind? That foolish consistency of how goblin of little minds, right? But essentially, look, all this is all learning is error correction, right? Every knowledge creation system works through correcting errors, making guesses and correcting error. So by definition, if you're learning, you can be wrong most the time, and you will be updating your payers. 是啊，那句话怎么说来着？谁说人类就该保持愚蠢的一致性？就像小妖精般狭隘的思维对吧？但本质上，所有学习都是纠错过程。每个知识创造系统都通过纠正错误、提出猜想再修正来运作。所以从定义上说，只要你还在学习，就注定会经常犯错，并不断更新你的认知筹码。

And so for example, later this jeroen, an podcasting I was eight or nine years ago and people will call out like the one thing that didn't turn out to be correct and it's just like they're just beat on IT because IT IT helps them, in their mind, raise their status a little bit. Aha, I caught him in an error. Well, I think if you catch someone in the britain lie where there's believe one thing and they say another, that's legit. 举个例子，后来我在杰伦的播客里提到，八九年前人们会揪住某个不准确的预测不放——他们之所以死磕这点，是因为在心理上，这能稍微抬高自己的身价。"哈！我可算逮到他的错了。"要是指出对方心口不一，比如心里相信某件事却嘴上否认，这种批评还算站得住脚。

That's a character flaw. Dishonors be lying. But on the other hand, if they just made a guest at something and they got a wrong, and by the way, most leads about the AIAGI think and I think i'm still right about with a different story um people who think we have achieved agi just failed toru tests from their side. 那属于品格缺陷。说谎是 dishonorable 的行为。但另一方面，如果对方只是做出推测却判断失误（顺便说，现在大多数关于 AGI 的论断都是如此，虽然我依然坚持自己的观点），那些认为我们已经实现 AGI 的人，其实连自己这关的图灵测试都没通过。

It's funny how people latch on to single proclaim tions, but the reality is all of us are dynamic systems. We're always changing. We're always learning. 有趣的是人们总爱揪着个别论断不放，但事实上所有人都是动态系统。我们永远在变化，永远在学习。

We're always grow. And uh, hopefully we're correcting errors. But you don't want to be doing is lying in public so that because you're you're trying to look good. 永远在成长。呃...但愿我们都在修正错误。但切忌为了维护形象而当众撒谎——毕竟你只是在假装完美。

And I think people can smell that what this world really lacks right now is authenticity. And because everybody wants something, they want to be seen as something, they want to be something that they're not. And so you do catch a lot of people, uh, saying things that they don't really believe. And I think people are . 我认为人们能察觉到，当今世界最缺乏的就是真实。因为每个人都想得到些什么，想被看作某种形象，想成为他们本不是的样子。所以你确实会发现很多人说着违心的话，而我觉得人们对此...

very sensitive. Bulls shit radars have become hyper sized to try and work out whether or not this person means . 非常敏感。人们的"废话雷达"已经变得异常敏锐，试图判断这个人是否...

to a lot of people along most of us, along most of the time, especially in . 对大多数人而言，在大多数时候，尤其是在...

any new endear wrong t exactly. 任何新的尝试都未必完全正确。

So I think, I think that's a big difference. If someone is wrong, no big deal, as long as they have a genuine reason for saying what they are saying, who are believing what they're believing. But if they are lying to elevate the status of their appearance, to live up to some expectation, that's the mistake. And this a mistake, not just for the listener to mistake for themselves, because then you're onna, get trapped in a whole mirror s you yourself, or going be consistent with your past. 所以我认为，这其中有本质区别。如果某人说错了话，只要他们持有真实的理由去表达观点、坚持信仰，那都无伤大雅。但若是为了抬高身价、迎合他人期待而撒谎，这才是真正的错误。这种错误不仅会误导听众，更会让你陷入自我镜像的牢笼——要么不断伪装维持人设，要么被过往的谎言所束缚。

proclaim tion. So if you're lying to, oh, you going that's right. 宣称立场时若掺杂谎言，最终只会作茧自缚。

Yeah it's it's like, was that line this you you're basically trying to impress people who, you know, don't care about you. 是啊，这就像...你拼命想给那些根本不在意你的人留下好印象。

So and I don't like the real you, and if they saw the real you, they wlink care. And the people who would like the real, you don't get to see the real use. So they pass you by. 结果呢？真正欣赏本真你的人看不到真实的你，而你在讨好的人即便看到真实面目也不会在意。就这样，你与那些本该珍视你的人擦肩而过。

right? You only want to respect to the very, very few people that you respect, trying to demand respect from the masses as a fools are in. 对吧？你只想尊重那些极少数你真敬重的人，试图从大众那里索取尊重是愚人的行为。

Say this games, the a lure of a cruel, whether it's fame, actual fame or just the competition comparison trap is always there. There's a real draw of being swayed by social approval. How should people learn to get less distracted by state scams in that way? 就拿这些游戏来说，无论是名望、真正的声誉还是攀比竞争的陷阱，残酷的诱惑始终存在。社会认同确实有着强大的吸引力。人们该如何学会减少被这类地位骗局分散注意力呢？

I think IT IT just helps to see that status games don't matter as much as they used to in all society that go back country, gathered times, there is no thing as wealth you just had you could Carry. There was no stored wealth. So wealth games didn't really exist to wealth creation games, all that exists to status games. 我认为关键在于要明白，地位游戏的重要性已大不如前。在过去的部落社会里，没有所谓的财富积累——你能携带的就是全部，不存在储存的财富。所以那时没有财富创造游戏，只有地位游戏。

If you are a high status, then you got what little was available first um but even back then, you had to earn your status by taking care of the tribe. Uh now we have wealth creation where you can actually create a product or service, you can scale that product or service, you can provide abundance for a lot of people. Uh, and that's not zero sum. 即便在远古时期，作为高地位者虽能优先获取稀缺资源，但你也必须通过照顾部落来赢得地位。如今我们有了财富创造机制——你可以开发产品或服务，将其规模化，为许多人创造富足。这不再是零和博弈。

That's a positive sum game. I can be wealthy. You can be wealthy. We can create things together. 这是场正和博弈。我能变得富有，你也能变得富有，我们可以共同创造财富。

And clearly, since we are all collectively far, far wealthier than we were in hunter gather at times, uh, wealth creation is positive, but status is limited. There's limited status to go around. It's a ranking letter to hierarchy. 显然，比起狩猎采集时代，如今我们整体已富裕得多——财富创造确实是正和游戏，但社会地位却是有限的。地位资源存在上限，本质上是个等级排序体系。

And so IT to rise in status, somebody else has a lower status. Now you can have multiple kinds of status, so you can expand some kinds of status is, but it's not like wealth creation. We can go infinitely where we can all be, you living in the stars and moon bases or mars colonies or what have you so just realized the status games are inherently limited. 因此当某人地位上升时，必然有其他人地位下降。虽然存在多种地位维度可以拓展，但这与财富创造不同。财富增长没有天花板——我们可以无限发展，住在星际空间站、月球基地或火星殖民地。但要明白，地位游戏天生就存在边界。

They're always combat of um there always require uh, direct combat. Where is wealth creation? Games can be just you're creating products. You don't have to fight anybody else. Yes, in the marketplace, your product has succeed, but that's not quite the same as uh, effective against other people are being angry, other people feeling pushed down or pushed up or having a beef with somebody. So I would argue that word creation games are both more pleasant, uh, their positive some and they actually have a concrete matera returns if you have more money. 它们总是涉及直接的战斗对抗。财富创造在哪里？游戏可以只是关于创造产品。你不必与任何人争斗。是的，在市场上，你的产品成功了，但这与激怒他人、让别人感到被压制或与某人结怨并不完全相同。因此我认为，财富创造类游戏不仅更令人愉悦，更具积极意义，而且如果你拥有更多资金，它们实际上能带来具体的物质回报。

you can buy me change state. Actually. 你可以用钱改变我的状态。真的。

yeah, it's vae in is fuzzy. Now, you see, people get rich. They have money. 是的，现在情况很模糊。你看，人们致富了。他们有钱了。

What do they want? They want status. So they go to hollywood, start starting in movies. They don't attn non profits. They go to can or devils or what to have you um and they start trying to trade the money for status. So you know people always want what they don't have. 他们想要什么？他们想要地位。所以他们去好莱坞，开始拍电影。他们不关注非营利事业。他们去赌场或夜店之类的地方，开始试图用金钱换取地位。你知道，人们总是渴望自己没有的东西。

And we are evolutionary hardwired for status because as I said, wealth creation didn't really exist until the agricultural revolution when you could store grain. And then the industrial revolution took IT to another level and not the information age has taken to yet another level. But there's never been an easier time to make money. 我们天生就追求地位，正如我所说，在农业革命之前，财富积累几乎不存在——直到人类能够储存粮食才开始。工业革命将财富创造推向新高度，而信息时代又将其提升至前所未有的层面。但赚钱从未像现在这般容易。

Yes, it's still hard, but there's never been easier time to create wealth because there's so much leveraged out there, there's so much opportunity. You still have to go find IT. It's not easy. 没错，这依然不简单，但创造财富的难度已降至历史最低点，因为如今有如此多的杠杆工具和机遇。你仍需主动寻找机会，这并不轻松。

It's not going to fall in your lap and you have to learn something and know something and do something interesting. But nevertheless, it's possible to many more people. Few hundred years ago, you were born to surf. 财富不会从天而降，你必须学习知识、掌握技能并做出有价值的事。但相比过去，现在有更多人能够实现阶层跨越。几百年前，你的出身就决定了命运。

You're going to die surf. There was almost no way out of that. That's changed. And so I would argue that you're Better off focusing on wealth games and status games. If you're trying to build up, for example, you're following on a social network and get famous and then get rich of being famous, that's a much harder path than getting rich first and then go for your fame afterwards would be my advice. 生为农奴，死为农奴，几乎无法逃脱这种宿命。如今时代已变。因此我认为，你最好专注于财富游戏而非地位游戏。举例来说，若你想通过在社交网络积累粉丝成名再变现，这条路径远比先积累财富再获取名声更为艰难——这是我的忠告。

Well, a lot of people do that. As he said, it's funny how a people who have achieved such a level of wealth you don't think why do you need the status given that most people use status to then trying cash to achieve wealth if you've achieved sucky money already, if you're post money or uh asset heavy as it's known um why you trying to go in the other direction? What as you said, because we've got an illustrious history biologically of wanting status and wealth is kind of not it's new. 确实，很多人都是这样。正如他所说，有趣的是当人们已经积累了如此可观的财富后——既然多数人追求地位是为了将其变现为财富，而你已经拥有花不完的钱，或者说处于"后金钱"阶段（即资产雄厚状态）——为什么还要反其道而行之呢？就像你说的，这源于人类进化史上对地位根深蒂固的渴望，而财富相对而言反而是新近的追求目标。

The wealth is h something that you have to understand more intellectually. Yeah, there's a physical component, more food, more survival. But to truly understand the effects and the powers in the abilities and limitations and the advances and disadvantage is a wealth you have to use your real car. 财富更多是需要用理性去理解的概念。当然它有物质基础——更多食物，更好生存保障。但要真正理解财富带来的能力与局限、优势与弊端这些深层影响，必须动用你的真本事。

tex, a lot more is an the reason to play the game is to win the game and be done with IT is harder to win and be done with for status than IT is for wealth. 关键在于，追求地位这场游戏比追求财富更难"通关即止"。游戏的本质是赢得比赛后退出，但地位游戏往往令人难以抽身。

That's a good observation. I had thought that through, but you're right yeah I think that's right. I think you people will always want more statius. Uh, but I think you can be satisfied at a certain level of wealth well as well. 这个观察很犀利。我虽然思考过这点，但你说得对。我认为人类对地位的渴望永无止境，但确实可以在某个财富水平上获得满足感。

You always have this sort of sense and this is what leader boards are. This is IT is zero sum right? And IT is, I guess, you know the forbes richest people on the planet yeah. 你总能感受到这种氛围，这就是排行榜的本质。这本质上就是零和博弈，对吧？就像《福布斯》全球富豪榜那样，你懂的。

that was hard to climb the latter on. But the fact that, for example, itunes and youtube can put you in competition against your contemporary every single day and make you go up and down and show you . 攀登这样的阶梯确实艰难。但关键在于，像 iTunes 和 YouTube 这样的平台，能让你每天与同辈竞争，让你在排名中起伏沉浮，并将这些数据赤裸裸地展示给你看。

likes and comments . 点赞数和评论数，

and rating this exactly, keep you running on that treatment forever. 以及精确的评分机制，就这样让你永远困在这个追逐游戏中无法脱身。

Jimmy cr has this cool idea where he says trajectory is more important than position. So if you are nine hundred and one in the world, but last year you are number two hundred verses, you number two in the world, last year you number one, there is this sense of the deceleration is very, very tangible. It's why I going to goes back to evolution. 吉米·CR 有个很酷的观点，他认为轨迹比现状更重要。假设你现在世界排名第 901 位，但去年你排在第 200 位；而另一个人现在世界第二，去年却是世界第一——这种排名下滑的趋势会让人产生非常强烈的挫败感。这让我联想到进化论。

And something that is bleeding eventually dies. Unless you stop the bleating, you're hard wired not to lose what you. And because we evolved in conditions we were so close to just not surviving a, you don't want to give anything up. It's hardwired into us to not give anything up. 持续失血终将致命。除非你能止住伤口，否则人类与生俱来的本能就是不愿失去已有之物。因为我们进化过程中长期处于生存边缘，放弃任何资源都可能致命。这种绝不放弃的本能已深植我们的基因。

So you grab tightly. That's right. If you struggle to stay a sleep because your body gets too hot or too cold, this is going to help just add an eight sleep pod for ultra mattress. 所以你会死死抓住不放。没错。如果你因身体过冷过热而难以入睡，八小时睡眠舱搭配 Ultra 床垫就能解决问题。

Like a fitted sheet, they will automatically cool down or warm up each side of your bed up to twenty degrees. It's got integrated senses to track your sleep time, your sleep faces, your hv, you're snaring and your heart rate with nineteen nine percent accuracy. IT even starts cooling or heating your bed an hour before you get into IT. 就像定制床单般贴合，它能将床铺两侧温度在 20 度范围内自动调节。内置传感器能以 99%的精度追踪你的睡眠时长、睡眠阶段、心率变化甚至鼾声。更神奇的是，它会在你上床前一小时就开始预冷或预热床铺。

That is why eight sleep has been clinically proven to increase total lead up to one hour every night. Best of all, we've got a thirty day sleep trial, so you can buy IT and sleep on IT for twenty nine night. And if you don't like IT, they will give you your money back. 正因如此，八小时睡眠（Eight Sleep）产品经临床验证能帮助用户每晚增加总计一小时的深度睡眠。最棒的是我们提供 30 天睡眠试用期，您可以先购买体验 29 晚。若效果不满意，我们承诺全额退款。

Plus the ship internationally right now, you can get three hundred and fifty dollars off the pod for ultra by going to the link in the description below are heading to eight sleep dot com, such as modern wisdom, and using the code, modern wisdom a checking that EIGHT sleep dot com, such a modern wisdom and modern wisdom a checkout. The worst outcome in the world is not having self. Estee.现在订购还支持全球配送，点击下方描述区链接或直接访问 eightsleep.com，输入专属代码 MODERNWISDOM 即可立减 350 美元购买 Pod Ultra 智能床垫。记住要在结算页面使用代码 MODERNWISDOM 完成优惠——世界上最糟糕的状态莫过于自我厌恶。

part 1 end

yeah, it's a tough one. I look at the people and I don't want to end anybody, but look at the people who don't like themselves and that's the toughness slot because they always rest with themselves and it's hard enough to face the outside world um and no one's going to like you more than you like yourself. So if you are struggling with yourself, then the outside world becomes an insurmountable chAllenge. 确实这是个难题。我看着那些人群，并不想评判任何人。但那些厌恶自己的人最令人揪心，因为他们永远无法摆脱自我的牢笼。光是应对外部世界已足够艰难——要知道，没有人会比你更善待自己。若你正与自我抗争，那么外部世界就会变成难以逾越的险峰。

And it's hard to say why people have low self team in might be genetics IT, might just be circumstantial. Lot of times, I think, is because they just weren't unconditionally love to the child. And that sort of seizin at a deep core level. 很难说人们为何缺乏自信，可能是遗传因素，也可能只是环境使然。很多时候我认为，根源在于他们童年时没有得到无条件的爱。这种缺失会在心灵深处留下烙印。

Um but self steam issues can be the most limiting. One interesting thought is that you know to some extent self fest team as a reputation you have with yourself. Um you are watching yourself at all the times you know what you're doing and you have your own moral code. 但自卑问题往往最具限制性。有个有趣的观点：在某种程度上，自信就像你与自己建立的名誉。你时刻都在观察自己的行为，内心自有道德准则。

Everyone has a different moral de, but if you don't live up to your own moral code, the same code that you hold others too uh IT will damage yourself esteem so perhaps one way to build up your self as team is to live up to your own code very rigorously, have one, and then live up to IT. Another way to raise yourself as team might be to do things for others. If I look back on my life, and you know, what are the moments that i'm actually proud of, there is very foreign between. 每个人的道德标准不同，但若你达不到自己要求他人时秉持的标准，就会损害自尊。因此培养自信的方法之一，或许是严格恪守自己的准则——先确立准则，再身体力行。另一个提升自信的途径可能是为他人付出。当我回顾人生中真正引以为豪的时刻，这样的瞬间其实寥寥无几。

It's not that often, it's not the things you would expect. It's not the material success is not having learned this thing or that it's when I made a sacrifice for somebody or something that I loved. And that's when I am actually, ironically, most proud. 这种情况并不常见，也不是你预想中的那些事。不是物质上的成功，不是学会了某样东西，而是当我为所爱之人或事物做出牺牲的时刻。讽刺的是，恰恰是这些时刻最让我感到自豪。

Now that's an explicit mental exercise, but i'll bet you at some level and recording that implicitly. So that tells me that even if I am not being loved, in the way to create love is to give love to to express love through sacrifice, through duty. And so I think doing things like that can build up yourself a team really fast. 这虽然是个明确的心理练习，但我敢说在某种程度上你已经在潜意识里记录下来了。这说明即使我没有被爱，创造爱的方式就是通过牺牲、通过责任去给予爱、表达爱。所以我认为做这类事情能让你快速建立起自己的团队。

It's interesting when you talk about sacrifice, because a lot of the time, people so I sacrifice so much for my job like, yeah, but that was you sacrificing something that you wanted less for, something that you wanted more as supposed to genuinely taking some sort of cost uh I wonder whether if self a steam is you adheres ing to your internal your actions into your values align ing um even when it's difficult, perhaps even more so it's difficult. 谈到牺牲很有意思，因为很多时候人们会说"我为工作牺牲了那么多"——但其实那只是你为更想要的东西放弃了较不重要的东西，而非真正付出了某种代价。我在想，自尊是否在于使你的行为与内心价值观保持一致，尤其是在困难时期，或许越是艰难越能体现这一点。

I wonder whether there is a Price that people who are more inro's cable, high integrity pay because think, well, you've got this heavy asset of overheads. Did you need to pay in some way? Well, 我想知道，那些更正直诚信的人是否要付出某种代价，因为你会想，既然背负着如此沉重的道德负担，是否必须以某种方式偿付？

if being ethically were profitable, everybody would do IT right. So, uh, you at some level doesn't involve a sacrifice uh but that sacrifice can also be thought of as you're thinking for the long term read in the short term um if for example, the virtues are the set of uh virtues, a set of belief that everybody y's society followed them as individuals, IT would lead to win win outcomes for everybody. 其实如果坚守道德能带来利润，那人人都会趋之若鹜。所以在某种程度上，这确实需要某种牺牲——但这种牺牲也可以理解为舍短期逐长远。比如，如果这些美德...这套信念体系能被社会中的每个个体践行，最终将实现多方共赢。

So if I am honest and you are honest, then we can do business more easily. We can interact more easily because we can trust each other. So even though there might be a few liars in the system, as long as there aren't too many liars and too many cheaters, uh, a hydrous society where everybody's honest, Better off. 如果我诚实你也诚实，我们的商业往来就更顺畅。彼此信任让互动更轻松。即便系统中存在少数欺诈者，只要数量可控，一个人人诚实的社会终将更加繁荣。

And I think a lot of the virtues work this way, right? If I don't go on sleeping with your wife and you don't sleep with mine, you know, if I don't take all the food is at the table first and so on, then we all get along Better and we can play win win games in game theory, the most famous game as prisoners delima. But that's all about everybody cheating in the nasty galliera um the stable equilibrium um there is everybody cheats. 我认为许多美德就是这样运作的，对吧？如果我不与你的妻子有染，你也不与我的妻子有染；如果我不抢先霸占餐桌上的所有食物等等，那么我们就能更好地相处，可以在博弈论中玩双赢游戏——最著名的例子就是囚徒困境。但那个模型讲的是所有人都在肮脏的博弈中作弊，最终形成所有人都作弊的稳定均衡状态。

And you're fort the only way you can be. You can play a win, win game as if you have long term iterated moves. But that's not actually the most common game played in society. 而你能采取的唯一策略就是：通过长期重复博弈来实现双赢。但这实际上并非社会中最常见的博弈模式。

The most common game players, one called the tags hunt, where if we CoOperate we can bring down a big stag and both have big dinners. But if we don't CoOperate, then we have to go hunt like rabbits and we each have small dinners. So most of um in that game has two stable equal liberals. 最常见的博弈模型是"猎鹿游戏"——如果我们合作，就能捕获一头大鹿，共享丰盛晚餐；但如果不合作，就只能各自猎兔，勉强果腹。这个博弈中存在两个稳定的均衡点。

And one could be where both hunting the rabbit in, one could be where we are hunting the stacks. So the hydrous society is a more virtuous society, where I can trust you to come hunt the stag with me and open time and do the work and divided properly. So you want to live in a system where everybody has their own set of virtues and follows them, and then we all win. 有人可能选择共同猎兔，也有人可能选择合力围猎。因此，这个充满信任的社会更显高尚——我能放心邀你一同追捕牡鹿，我们共享时光、分工协作、公平分配。你渴望生活在一个人人恪守美德、各尽其责，最终集体受益的体系中。

But I would argue, you don't need to do that for sacrifice. You don't need to do that for other people. You can do IT just purely for yourself. You will have higher self steam. You will attract other high virtue people. 但我要说，你无需为牺牲而如此，也不必为他人勉强。纯粹为自己践行美德就足够。你的自我价值感将提升，也会吸引其他品德高尚之人。

Does I go to stag hunt with me? 愿意与我共赴猎鹿之约吗？

correct? Yeah, that's right. And if you are the kind of person, if you're the kind of person who long term signals ethics and virtues, then you'll attract other people whose are ethical and virtuous. 对吧？正是如此。如果你是那种长期践行道德准则的人，自然会吸引同样正直高尚的伙伴。

Whether if you are a shark, you will eventually find itself swiming entirely among sharks. And that's an unpleasant existence. But again, this goes back to the quill vin of the marsh mono test. And by the . 无论你是鲨鱼与否，终将发现自己完全置身于鲨群之中游弋。这种生存状态令人不适。但归根结底，这又回到了沼泽单胺测试的核心问题。而通过...

marsh mono test, does not replicate vacation Prices. 沼泽单胺测试无法复现度假消费水平

But IT is about trading off short term for the long term. Uh, and so I think for a lot of these so called virtues, there are long term selfish reasons to be virtuous. 但这本质上是为长远利益牺牲短期收益。呃，所以我认为很多所谓的美德，其实都存在利己的长远动机。

yeah. Did you deal with self doubt in the past? Is that something that was a hurdle feed overcome? 是啊。你过去是否与自我怀疑斗争过？这是你必须跨越的障碍吗？

Yes, I no, I think I dealt with self out out in the sense that, oh, I don't know what i'm doing and I need to figure that out. But I didn't doubt myself in the way of somebody else knows Better than me for me or that, you know, i'm an idiot, i'm not worthwhile or anything that II guess I had the benefit of. I grew up with a lot of love, like the people around me love me unconditionally. And so that just gave me a lot of confidence, uh, not the kind of confidence that would say I have the answer, but the kind of confidence that I will figure that out and I know what I want or only I am a good arbitrary of what I want . 是的，我并没有在那种"别人比我更懂什么适合我"的层面上怀疑过自己，也没有陷入"我是个白痴""我一无是处"的自我否定。我想这得益于——我在充满爱的环境中长大，周围人都无条件地爱我。这种成长经历给了我十足的底气，不是那种"我掌握着正确答案"的狂妄，而是"我终会找到答案"的笃定，让我确信只有自己才是内心所求的最佳裁决者。

yeah that level of south belief, I suppose, allows you to determine what is IT that matters to me, myself, a team. Should I chase this thing or not, I can make a fed judgment on that is opposed to being so way. But it's such a good point about even if you think you're not consciously logging the stuff that you're doing, there is some that in the back of the amount is at the diamond. Is that what the uh ancient . 这种根植于心的自我认同，确实能让人清晰判断什么对个人、对团队真正重要——我是否该追求某个目标，完全可以做出坚定决断，而不至于摇摆不定。你提到潜意识积累的观点很精妙，即便我们没刻意记录过往经历，那些沉淀在记忆深处的点滴终会如钻石般闪耀。这不正是古人所说的...

greeks or something is? Yeah yeah also in computer science like concept of diamond, which is a uh a program is always running in the background. You can see IT OK um but yeah probably comes from the ancient greek demon um but yeah I what you know that you don't even know you know is far greater than what you know you know right you can even articulate most of the things you know there are feelings you have that have no words for them. 希腊人或类似的概念？对对，在计算机科学里也有这种概念，比如守护进程（diamond），就是那种一直在后台运行的程序。你看 IT 领域就懂...呃...不过这个词可能源自古希腊的守护灵概念。但说实话，你意识不到自己知道的东西，其实比你明确知道的多得多对吧？很多你感受到的东西根本找不到语言来形容。

There are thoughts you have that are felt, the body or subconsciously that you never articulate to yourself. You don't you can't articulate the rules of grammar yet. You exercise them effortlessly when you speak. 有些想法是身体或潜意识感知到的，你从未用语言向自己表述过。就像你现在还说不出语法规则，但说话时却能毫不费力地运用它们。

So I would argue that you're implicit knowledge, and your knowledge that is unknown to yourself is far greater than the now as you can articular that you can communicate. And so at some level, you're always watching yourself. That's so your consciousness is right, is the thing that's watching everything, including your mind, including your body. So if you want to a, have high self team, then earn your own self respect. 所以我认为，你的隐性知识——那些你自己都没意识到的认知——远比你能明确表达出来的多得多。从某种程度来说，你始终在观察着自己。这就是意识的作用，它观察着一切，包括你的思维和身体。所以说要想获得高度自尊，首先要赢得自我尊重。

I had this idea, the internal golden rule. So the golden rule says, treat others the way that you should be treated. You want to be treated. The internal golden rule says, treat yourself like others should have treated you and IT was AA repost to maybe people that didn't grow up with unconditional love yeah in that way. 我有个想法，叫做内在黄金法则。黄金法则说的是：以你希望被对待的方式对待他人。而内在黄金法则说的是：以他人本应善待你的方式来对待自己。这是对那些在成长过程中缺乏无条件关爱之人的一种回应。

On the love thing, one of the interesting things about love is you can try to remember the feeling of being loved. So go back to when someone wasn't love with you or someone still love you, and like, really remember that feeling, like really sit with IT and try to requite IT within yourself and then go to the feeling of you, you loving someone and when you were in love. And i'm not even talking about romantic love necessarily. So be little careful there. I'm talking more about . 关于爱这件事，最有趣的一点是你可以尝试回忆被爱的感觉。回想某个曾经深爱你或现在依然爱你的人，真切地重温那种感受，沉浸其中，试着在自己内心重新唤起这份情感。然后再去体会你爱着某人时的感觉，当你陷入爱河时的状态。这里不一定指浪漫爱情，需要稍加注意。我更多指的是...

like love and sometimes get complex. If you're talking about past romantic love. 爱有时会变得复杂，特别是当你谈及过往的浪漫爱情时。

right, a sibling or a child, there's something like that or a parent and think about when you felt love toward someone or something, and now which is Better. And I would argue that the feeling of being in love is actually more exaggerating. The feeling of being loved, being loved is a little coin, is a little too sweet. 对，比如兄弟姐妹或孩子，类似这样的关系，或是父母，回想一下当你对某人或某物产生爱意时的感受，现在比较一下哪种感觉更好。我认为，陷入爱情的感觉其实更为强烈。而被爱的感觉则像一枚小硬币，甜得有点过头。

You can want to push the person away, is a little embarrassing. And you know that if that person is too much into IT that you feel constrained. On the other hand, the feeling of being in love is very expensive and it's very open. 你可能会想推开那个人，这种感觉有点尴尬。而且你知道，如果对方太过投入，你会感到束缚。另一方面，陷入爱情的感觉非常珍贵，也非常开放。

IT actually makes you a Better version of yourself. IT makes you want to be a Better person. And so you can create love anytime you want is just that craving to receive IT. That's the problem. 它实际上能让你成为更好的自己，激励你想要变得更好。所以你可以随时创造爱，问题只在于那种渴望被爱的执念。

The most expensive trade is pride. 最昂贵的代价是骄傲。

How come? Oh, that was a recent one. A, I, I tweet that just because I think that a pride is the enemy of learning. 怎么会这样？哦，那是最近的事。我发那条推文只是因为我认为骄傲是学习的大敌。

So when I look at my friends and colleagues, the ones who are still stuck in the past and have grown the least are the ones who are the proud because they sort of feel like they already had the answers, and so they don't want to correct themselves publicly. And so this goes back to the fame conversation. You get locked into something you said that made you famous. You're known for that, and now you want to pivot or change. So pride prevents you from saying i'm wrong. 所以当我观察朋友和同事时，那些仍固守过去、成长最慢的人往往最骄傲，因为他们觉得自己已经掌握了答案，因而不愿公开修正自己。这又回到了名声的话题——你会被让你成名的那套说辞禁锢。你因此为人所知，现在却想转向或改变。骄傲阻止你说出"我错了"。

X IT could be as simple as you're . 可能简单到就像你正在……

trading stocks and then you don't admit you are wrong, so you hang until allows the trade uh IT could be that you are made a decision to uh you know marry someone or move somewhere or enter a profession that doesn't work out. Then you don't admit that you are wrong so you get stuck in IT. It's mostly about getting trapped in local maxima as supposed to going back down and climbing up the mountain again. 炒股却不肯认错，于是死扛直到交易解套；也可能是你决定与某人结婚、搬去某地或进入某个行业，结果并不如意。由于不愿承认错误，你就困在其中。这本质上是被困在局部最优解，而非退回山脚重新攀登。

And that's why it's an expensive trade because you continue to need to repay . 正因如此，这成为代价高昂的交易——你需要持续偿还代价。

IT in one former another yeah, you're just stuck at a sub optimal point. It's gona cost you money, is going to cost you success and time and time. Uh, the great artists always have this ability to start, whether it's polite ma or madona or youtube and updating myself a little bit. 无论以何种形式呈现，科技都会让你困在次优状态。它会让你损失金钱、错失成功机遇并不断消耗时间。伟大的艺术家们始终具备重启的能力，无论是毕加索、麦当娜还是 YouTube 创作者，都在持续进行自我更新。

But even the great entrepreneurs there just always will start over. I'm always struck by the elon musk story where no, he he did paypal as extent comercial。He actually was his his financial institution that got emerging to paypal.即便是最杰出的企业家也始终保持着重启的勇气。埃隆·马斯克的经历总让我深受触动——他最初创立的 X.com 网络银行，后来通过并购演变成了 PayPal。

Good that you ve got the domain . 拥有这个域名对你很有好处。

park that consistent. He's been using IT for quite a while um and he said is something like along the lines of um I made two hundred million dollars in the sala paypal I put one hundred million dollars in the space sex eight tested twenty into solar city and that to borrow money for rent right this guy is a potential is taker. He's always would start over. He doesn't have any pride about being seen as successful as being seen as a failure. 他始终如一。他说过类似这样的话：我在 PayPal 赚了两亿美元，拿一亿投了 SpaceX，两千万投了 SolarCity，结果还得借钱付房租——这家伙就是个天生的冒险家。他总能重头再来，根本不在乎别人视他为成功者还是失败者。

He's wanted to put IT all back himself again. 他总想亲手把一切重新赢回来。

each back himself again each time. But the key thing is he's always willing to start over right. Even now when he sort of made his his new startup as a USA, right, he's basically trying to fix IT like he would fix one of his startups. 每次都要亲手赢回来。但关键在于他永远愿意重头开始。即便是现在，当他把新创企业当作美国来经营时，本质上还是在用整顿初创公司的方式试图改造它。

And I think that is a wilderness to look like a fool, and that is a wilderness to start over. A lot of people just don't have that. They become successful. 我认为这是一种甘当傻瓜的勇气，更是推倒重来的魄力。多数人根本不具备这种特质。他们成功后

They become ritually become famous, and that sit their stuck. They don't want to go back to zero. And creating anything great requires zero to one. And that means you go back to zero. And that's really painful and hard . 他们循规蹈矩地成名，然后固步自封。他们不愿回到原点。而创造伟大事物需要从零到一的突破。这意味着你必须归零重来。这个过程极其痛苦且艰难。

to do talking about risk, something I been thinking about a lot to do with you any moment when you're not having a good time, when you're not really happy, you're not doing anyone any favors in lots of people have become unusually familiar with suffering silently in that sort of a way of not having a high bar for your expectation for a quality of life. Yeah, a lot of this disturb . 谈到风险，我一直在思考：当你过得不开心、不幸福时，你其实没有给任何人带来好处。许多人已经反常地习惯了默默忍受痛苦，这种状态源于对生活质量期望值设得太低。这种状况确实令人不安。

ming yourself into a bad outcome because you think that somehow suffering is a glorious or that IT makes you a Better person. Or my equip was, if you're so smart, weren't you happy? Why can you figure that one out? Um the reality is you can be smart, happy. 让自己陷入糟糕境地，只因你认为受苦是光荣的，或能让你成为更好的人。我的反问总是：既然你这么聪明，为什么不快乐？为什么连这个都搞不定？事实上，聪明与快乐完全可以并存。

There are planning of people in human history who are smart, happy. Uh and I think I just starts with saying, yeah you know what? I'm going to be happy. 人类历史上有许多既聪明又快乐的人。我认为一切始于这个决定：你知道吗？我选择快乐。

IT was a guy that I met in thailand a long time ago and um he is to work for tony Robins you know he a great attitude and uh, we were sitting around and he said you uh he said I realized one day that someone out there had to be the happiest person in the world like that. That person just has to exist. He said, why not me? I'll take on that burden. 很久以前我在泰国遇到一个人，他在托尼·罗宾斯那里工作，有着极好的心态。我们闲聊时他说："有一天我突然意识到，世界上总会有最幸福的那个人——这样的人必然存在。那为什么不能是我呢？这个担子就由我来挑吧。"

I'll be that guy and I heard I like, well, that's pretty good. That's a good frame, right? He knew how to reframe things. "我要成为那个人"，当时我觉得这想法真棒。这种思维框架很妙对吧？他懂得如何重构事物。

And so I think a lot of happiness is just a choice, uh, in the sense that you may first you just identify yourself as actually i'm going to be a person's going to be happy. I want to figure out out and you just figured out along the way, you're not gna lose your other product actions. You're not gona lose your ambition or desire for success. I think a lot of people have this fear that, oh, if i'm happy that I want want to be successful, no, you will just want to do things that are more aligned with a happy version of you, and you'll be successful with those things and blame me, the happy version if you use not going to look back at the unhappy version and say. 所以我认为快乐很大程度上是种选择——首先你要自我认定"我就是要成为快乐的人"，然后在实践中慢慢领悟。这不会让你丧失生产力，也不会磨灭你对成功的渴望。很多人总担心"快乐会让我失去上进心"，其实不然。你会更愿意去做与快乐版本自我契合的事，并因此获得成功。如果非要责怪谁，就怪现在这个快乐的自己吧——你绝不会回头去埋怨那个不快乐的旧我。

a man that I was. 从前的那个我

You're actually trying to be successful. So you'll be happy if you get in the backwards. 你其实是在追求成功。所以如果你反其道而行之，反而会感到快乐。

You you unlocked one of my trap cards, one of my favorite insights that is that we sacrifice the thing we want for the thing that supposed to get IT. So we sacrifice happiness in order to be successful, so that when we're finally sufficiently successful, we can actually be happy. And if you have some sort of simultaneous equation, you just have stripped success off from both sides. 你触发了我的陷阱卡之一，我最喜欢的洞见之一就是：我们为了得到自以为能带来目标的事物，牺牲了真正想要的东西。我们牺牲快乐去追求成功，以为最终功成名就时就能真正快乐。如果用联立方程来比喻，你只是从等式两边同时消去了成功。

At least in my own life, I have not found that to be a trade off. If anything, I have found that the happier I get, the more I am going to do the things that I am good at and aligned with, and that will make me even happier. And so I actually end up more successful, not less. 至少在我的生活中，我发现这根本不需要取舍。恰恰相反，我发现越是保持快乐，就越会投入自己擅长且热爱的事情，而这又会带来更多快乐。所以我最终反而取得了更大而非更小的成功。

The aligned with thing is interesting. I mean, to try and put this across as delicately as I can, I would say, from the bit of time that we spent together, you have a really interesting trait of holistic selfishness. Your sort of prepared to put yourself first seem largely unphased by saying or doing things that might result in other people feeling a little bit awkward if it's truthful for you like an apologetically self prioritizing, I guess. Yeah, I think everybody . 这件事的对齐方式很有意思。我的意思是，尽量委婉地表达——从我们相处的这段时间来看，你有一种非常有趣的整体性自私特质。你那种把自己放在首位的准备状态，似乎对说出或做出可能让别人感到些许尴尬的事情毫不在意，只要这对你来说是真实的，就像一种毫无歉意的自我优先主义。是的，我认为每个人...

is maybe unapologetic is the part that's that's relatively, uh, rare, but I think everybody puts themselves first. That's just human nature. You're here because you survive your separate organism. 或许这种毫无歉意才是相对罕见的部分，但我认为每个人都会把自己放在第一位。这就是人性。你存在是因为你作为独立个体存活了下来。

That's interesting maybe, but I know we like to virtue . 这个观点可能很有趣，但我知道我们都喜欢...

signal on pretend that we're doing you for each other how how many . 假装在互相付出时展现美德，实际上又有多少人...

times to somebody said yes, of course i'd love to come to the wedding like I don't want to be at the fucking in wedding here how many times to somehow you doing today? I don't tell you how, but this is my point. So I don't think you're necessary right with that. I think that people do I don't think they put themselves first. I sometimes think that they they compromise what IT is that they want in order to appease socially what's in front of them. 有多少次别人邀请时，你会说"当然我很乐意参加婚礼"，其实心里想的却是"我他妈根本不想去这破婚礼"。今天你又勉强答应了多少次？我不会教你怎么做，但这就是我的观点——我认为人们常常把自己放在次要位置。有时我觉得他们为了迎合社交场合，会妥协自己真正想要的东西。

Yeah, I just viewed as your waste. Everyone's wasting their time on IT don't do something you don't want to do. why? Why are you wasting the time? They're AA little time on this earth. 是啊，我就把这视为你在浪费生命。每个人都在浪费时间做不想做的事。何必呢？你为什么要浪费这短暂的人生？我们在这世上的时间本就少得可怜。

Life goes fast. What is four thousand weeks? That's your life span. Um and and yes, we hear that but we don't remember that. But uh, I guess i'm came me aware of how little time I have. I'm just not gona wasted. 生命转瞬即逝。四千周是什么概念？那就是你的一辈子。嗯，虽然我们都听过这句话，却总是记不住。但呃，我想我开始意识到自己拥有的时间多么有限。我绝不会虚度光阴。

How have you got more comfortable at being the unapologetic self prioritizing? Yes. 你是如何做到心安理得地优先考虑自我的？没错。

i've i've totally more and more ruthless on IT mainly IT said, I see or hear people's freedom and then that liberates me further. So I read a uh I read a blog post by, uh p marka AK mark and recent race that don't keep a schedule. And I took back to heart. 我变得越来越冷酷无情——主要是这让我明白，当我目睹或听闻他人的自由时，这种认知反而进一步解放了我。最近我读到一篇博客文章，作者是马克·AK·马克，他主张不要制定日程表。这番话让我深有感触。

So I delete my calendar. I don't keep a schedule. I tried to remember IT all of my head. If I can't remember IT, i'm not going to yeah exactly to look things up at the last minute uh so but ironically only enough mark himself follows that but he made the point ah I read a little story by jack dorsey doing all his business of his uh iphone and ipad and not even going into a mac and I said, OK, I want to do that. I'm going to Operate through text messaging and put nasty feel . 于是我删除了日历，不再安排日程。我尝试把所有事情都记在脑子里——如果记不住，那就干脆不去做。说来讽刺，马克本人虽然提倡这点，但他提到杰克·多西只用 iPhone 和 iPad 处理所有业务，甚至不用 Mac 电脑。看完后我决定效仿：我要通过短信处理事务，营造一种令人不适的极简体验。

like more freedom IT . 这感觉像是获得了更多自由。

does yeah because you're on the go um so I have a nasty email auto responder that says I don't check email and don't text neither right? If you need to find me, you'll find me. Obviously, some of this is in the luxury of success, but some of these habits are adopted long before actually the hostile email auto respond to started. 确实如此，毕竟移动办公才是常态。我设置了犀利的邮件自动回复："我不查邮件，也不回短信。若真有急事，你自然能找到我。"当然，这种任性多少得益于事业有成，但其中某些习惯——比如那个充满敌意的自动回复——其实早在成功前就已养成。

I used to own the domain iglesia coffee. I don't do coffee. I can to reply from that email, uh, just so people who get the point, but I stop being rude about IT. Now I just ghost, I just disappear. Um my wife knows not to ever uh, book or schedule me for anything not like I expected to go to couples dinner and expected to go to birthdays and expected go to weddings. If somebody tries to row into having me show up, he says he makes own . 我曾拥有 iglesia coffee 这个域名。我不碰咖啡生意。我可以从那封邮件回复，呃，只是为了让人明白意思，但我已经不再对 IT 事务无礼了。现在我直接玩消失。嗯，我妻子知道永远不要，呃，给我预订或安排任何事——不像有些人指望我去参加夫妻晚餐、指望我去生日派对、指望我去婚礼。如果有人试图硬拉我出席，她会说他自有主张。

decisions. You have serendipity and way that no. 决定权。你拥有偶然性和那种方式...不。

no, i'm fring. All my time of my entire life is serendib I get to interact with whoever I want. 不，我是边缘人。我生命中的全部时间都属于偶然性，我可以随心所欲地与任何人互动。

whenever I want to hear the invite, but make the decision because if you don't know if the fewer things and kind of your shaming that you know what's best . 随时接受邀请，但要自己做决定。因为如果你不确定哪些事该舍弃，某种程度上你是在羞愧地假装知道什么最适合自己。

to anything in the future. So i'll say, okay, if that thing is interesting, i'll see if I can get in that day when i'm in the mood. But there is nothing worse than something coming up that your past self committed you to present doesn't . 对于未来的任何事，我都会先观望——如果那件事足够有趣，等我心情到位时自然会去参与。但最糟糕的莫过于被过去的自己用承诺绑架现在的你。

want you yeah and then IT destroys . 是啊，然后它就会彻底摧毁...

your entire calendar. IT destroys your day because there's like this one hour slot. What is sitting like a turtle on my calendar that I have to like scheduled by whole day around. 你整张日程表。它会毁掉你的一天，因为那个像乌龟般盘踞在日历上的一小时时段，逼着我必须围绕它来安排全天行程。

I can't do anything twenty years before the twenty minutes afterwards, even for phone calls. If someone wants to your phone call, say, okay, just text me when you're free out, text you are free and i'll just do IT on the fly. It's a much Better way living than this over the scheduled know, call that com or I call whatever the over . 在那二十分钟前后我什么都做不了，连电话都不敢接。如果有人想通话，我会说：先发短信告知空闲时间，我可以随时应对。这种随机应变的活法，可比那种被过度规划的日程表绑架要强得多——管它是电话会议还是什么别的。

scheduled life is not worth living. It's not I think it's . 按部就班的生活不值得过。我不认为这是...

terrible way to live life. That's not how we evolve. It's not how we grew up now, how we were as children. Hopefully, unless you have a helicopter parent or a tiger mom, your natural orders freedom. Uh, I had a friend who uh, said to me once, you know ah I never wanted have to be at a specific place at a specific time and I was like, oh my god, that's freedom when I . 糟糕的生活方式。那不是我们进化的方式，也不是我们成长的方式。除非你有直升机父母或虎妈，否则天性渴望自由。我曾有个朋友对我说："我从来不愿在特定时间出现在特定地点"，当时我恍然大悟——这就是自由的真谛。

heard that that change my alarm yes. 听到这句话后，我立刻修改了闹钟设置。

i'm alarm clock today I did set my life just I won't but just so you know, I set the alarm clock from eleven AM in case I was stricken with the flu. I was going to set my five clock for AM or I am and short enough I got up many hours before that yeah um but IT was sort of a backup emergency alarm in fact, sometimes where something that I need to do, I don't want to look at a calendar. So I just set alarm for IT . 今天我确实设了闹钟，但只是作为备用方案。我把闹铃定在上午 11 点，以防流感发作。原本打算设 5 点的闹钟，不过我很早就自然醒了。其实有时遇到必须完成的事，我宁愿设个闹钟也不愿查看日历。

just sitting sink a little bit more into that. I kind of love that fuckyou energy, that self prioritising energy because I think people rationally love the idea i'm going to do what only I want to do, even if you've got the . 再沉浸其中一点。我挺喜欢那种"去你的"态度，那种优先考虑自我的能量，因为我觉得人们理性上都喜欢这个理念——我只做自己想做的事，即便你手头有...

level freedom fuckyou energy, in the sense that I think everyone should live their life that way to the greatest extent possible. Obviously, we have a requirements around work and obligations that are genuinely important to us but don't fit away your life on randomly scheduled things and are things that are an important don't matter and events and weddings and you know tedious dinners with tedious people that you don't want to go to. 这种程度的自由和"去你的"态度，我认为每个人都应该尽可能以这种方式生活。显然，我们都有必须完成的工作和责任，这些对我们确实重要，但别把生命浪费在随机安排的事情上，那些无关紧要的活动、婚礼，还有你知道的——和无聊的人共进无聊的晚餐，你根本不想参加。

To the extent you can bring freedom into your lives optimized for that, you actually be more productive. You won't just be happier, more free. You will be more productive because then you can focus on what is in front of you, whatever. The biggest problem of that day, when I wake up in the morning, the first four hours are when I have the most energy, and that's when I wanted solve all the hard problems. 只要你能将这种自由带入生活并为之优化，实际上你会更高效。你不仅会更快乐、更自由，还会更有成效，因为这样你就能专注于眼前的事情。每天早晨醒来后的前四个小时是我精力最充沛的时候，这时候我就想解决所有难题。

And the next four hours are when I kind of want to, you know, do some more outdoors the activities, or I want to work out, or maybe I can, you know, have some meetings, but i'll try to do those last second based on whatever the day's party is. Demand the last four hours. I kind of want to wind down, and I want to hang out with the kids, and I want to play games. 接下来的四个小时里，我通常想进行些户外活动，或者锻炼身体，也可能安排些会议——但我会根据当天聚会情况尽量把这些安排往后压。最后这四个小时，我更想放松身心，陪孩子们玩耍，或者打打游戏。

I read a book or something like that, so having that flexibility and freedom is really important so you can just put whatever is most needed into the slot at that moment. Uh, and instead, if I have like a meeting at two PM, and then I have to like get a thing in some emails done. I put that after six PM on rushing, i'm not going be productive. I'm not going to be. 我会读读书或做些类似的事，这种灵活自由非常重要，这样你就能根据当下最迫切的需求来安排时间。反过来，如果我下午两点有个会议，之后还得处理一堆邮件，却把这些事拖到晚上六点才做，那我肯定效率低下，根本没法好好完成。

uh, you certain ly not free. 你显然没有自由支配的时间。

you know, i'm definitely ough free. But also an another thing that I really believe is that inspiration is perhaps act on that immediately. So when you're inspired red to do something, do that thing. If I inspired to write a blog post, I want to do at that moment if I inspired red to send a tweet. And when I do at that moment, if inspired to solve a problem, do that moment, if I inspired to read a book, I want to read the right. 要知道，我绝对是拥有自由的。但我还坚信一点：灵感来临时必须立即行动。当你对某件事产生创作冲动时，就要马上动手。如果我想写博客，就会立刻动笔；如果突然想发推文，当下就会发布；如果冒出解决问题的灵感，当即就会实施；如果产生阅读欲望，我马上就会翻开那本对的书。

Then, if I inspire to solve a problem, to solve IT right there, if I want to learn something I do at the moment of curiosity, the moment the curiosity arrives, I go learn that thing immediately. I downal the book, I get on google, I get on ChatGPT, whatever. I will figure that thing out on the spot. 那么，当我有灵感去解决一个问题时，就会当场解决它；当我想学习某个东西时，就在好奇心涌现的瞬间立刻行动。我会立即下载书籍、打开谷歌搜索、咨询 ChatGPT，总之当场就要弄明白这件事。

And that's when the learning happens. IT doesn't happen because of schedule time, because I ve set in our side, because when that time arrives and I been a different mood, I just want to do something different. So I think that sponsor is really important. You're gone to learn in best when you're having fun, when you generally are enjoying the process, not when you're forced to sit there and do IT how much you remember from school. You know, you were forced to learn geography, history, mathematics on this schedule at this time, according person didn't happen. 这才是真正学习发生的时刻。学习不会因为日程表上安排了时间就自动发生——因为当那个预定时间到来时，我的状态可能完全不同，可能只想做别的事。所以我认为这种自发性至关重要。当你乐在其中、真正享受这个过程时，学习效果最好，绝不是被迫坐在那里完成任务。想想你在学校被迫按课表学习地理、历史、数学的日子，真正记住的内容有多少？

All the stuff that sticks with you is you learned IT when you wanted to, when you genuinely have a desire and that freedom, that ability to act on something the moment you want to, is so liberating that most of us go through our lives with a very, very little taste. Live your entire life that way. That is a recipe for happiness. 那些真正留存的知识，都是在你主动想学的时候吸收的。当你怀着真诚的渴望，拥有随时行动的自由时，那种解放感无与伦比——可惜我们大多数人一生都很少体验这种状态。如果能始终以这种方式生活，那就是幸福的秘诀。

IT feels like efficiency that that you have. Also, you have the . 这感觉就像你所拥有的高效。同时，你也拥有着。

inspiration that is going to be the most . 那份即将成为最关键的灵感。

frictionless time to ever do that particular task. Oh, i've had the inspiration to do that. I'll put that often until the time when I no longer really want to do quite so much. And while I do want to do that thing, i'll do something else that I needed to do because it's on the schedule. 完成特定任务最顺畅的时机。当灵感涌现时，我会立即行动，直到热情消退。而在想做某件事时，我会先处理日程表上其他待办事项。

IT doesn't not work. Procrastination, because you don't want to do that thing right now. You want to do something else, to do that, something else. I reject this frame that efficiency and productivity and success are counter to happiness and freedom. They actually go together. 这并非无效。拖延，只因此刻不想做那件事。你想做其他事，为此选择其他选项。我拒绝接受效率、生产力与成功会阻碍幸福和自由的观点。它们实则相辅相成。

So the happier you are. 所以你越快乐。

the more you can sustain doing something, the more likely you are going to do something that will in turn make you even happier. And you continue to do IT you at work. Everybody else. The more free you are, the Better you can allocate your time, and the less you caught up in a web of obligations and commitments, and the more you can focus on the task at hand. 你越能持续做某件事，就越有可能做一些让你更快乐的事。然后你继续在工作中做这件事。对其他人来说也是如此。你越自由，就越能更好地分配时间，越不会被义务和承诺的网络所困，也越能专注于手头的任务。

In other news, this episode is brought you by function. Staying on top of your health requires more than just an annual physical, which is why I pony with function. They are run lab tests twice year to track over a hundred biomes and monitored for early signs of thousands of diseases. 另外，本期节目由 Function 赞助。保持健康需要的不仅仅是一年一次的体检，这就是为什么我选择 Function。他们每年进行两次实验室测试，追踪超过一百种生物指标，并监测数千种疾病的早期迹象。

They even scream for fifty types of cancer, that stage one, which is five times more data than you get from an annual physical. You receive insights from a team of expert physicians who provided detail, written clinical summary for our observations and then phone consultations for any critical findings. Getting these lab tests, sun would usually cost thousands, but with function IT is only four hundred in one thousand nine dollars. 他们甚至能筛查五十种癌症的第一阶段，提供的数据是年度体检的五倍。你会收到专家医生团队的详细书面临床总结，对任何关键发现还会提供电话咨询。这些实验室测试通常需要花费数千美元，但通过 Function 只需四百一十九美元。

And right now you can get the exact same blood panels that I get. And by pass their weight list by going to the link in the description below are heading to function health top com slash modern wisdom that's function health点com slash modern wisdom。This is related to another inside of you is the less you want something, the less you're thinking about IT, the less you're obsessing over IT, the more you're going to do IT in a nursing way, the more you're going to do with yourself, you're going to do IT in a way that you're good at and you're going to stick with IT.现在你就能获得和我完全相同的血液检测服务。只需点击下方描述中的链接，直达 FunctionHealth.com/modernwisdom，就能跳过他们的候补名单。这关乎你内在的另一面：你越不渴望某件事，越不去想它，越不执着于它，反而会以更自然的方式去实践，以更适合自己的方式行动，用你擅长的方式坚持做下去。

The people around you will see the quality of your work is higher. But this seems like a difficult tension to navigate because an obsessive attention to detail is a competitive advantage of your work as well. So you have these two things sort of conflicting with each other. 周围的人会注意到你的工作质量提升了。但这似乎是个难以把握的矛盾，因为对细节的极致追求同样是你工作的竞争优势。所以这两者某种程度上是相互冲突的。

No one is going to a beat you at being you. If IT IT took, one of things like to say is like, find what feels like play to you, but looks like work to others. So IT looks like work to them, but to you feels like play. 在"做自己"这件事上没人能胜过你。有句话我很喜欢：找到那些对你像玩耍、对他人却像工作的事。在他们眼里是苦差，对你却是乐趣。

It's not work. So you're going to outcompete them because you're doing IT effortless lesly. You're doing IT for fun. 这根本不算工作。所以你会轻松超越他们，因为你是毫不费力地在做这件事。你是为了乐趣而做。

They're doing IT for work. They're doing IT for some byproduct to you. It's art, it's beauty, it's joy, it's it's flow, it's fulfilling. Uh, you must enjoy podcasting. If you didn't, you wouldn't . 他们做这些是为了工作。他们做这些对你来说只是副产品。这是艺术，是美，是快乐，是心流，是自我实现。呃，你肯定很享受播客创作。如果不喜欢，你根本不会坚持。

good at IT one hundred empires, right? 精通 IT 的百大帝国，对吧？

If if you decided that the right way to get ahead in life was to go right books, you would know what you won't heard of you. Chris Williamson's book would be a complete flop. That's not who you are. 如果你认定人生进阶的正确方式是埋头读书，你就会明白为什么克里斯·威廉姆森的书会彻底失败——那根本不是你的风格。

You're a pod caster. You enjoy talking to people. You enjoy interviewing them. The more you do things that are natural to you, the less competition you have. You escape competition through authenticity by being your own self. 你是播客创作者。你享受与人交谈。你热爱采访他人。越是做顺应天性的事，你面临的竞争就越少。通过保持真我本真，你就能跳出竞争困局。

If I just summarized how to be successful in life, in two words, I would just say product tize yourself. And that just figure out what IT is that you naturally do, that the world might want, that you can scale up and turn into a product and it'll be it'll eventually be effortless for you. Yes, there's always work required, but he won't feel like working. 如果要用两个字概括如何获得成功的人生，我会说：产品化自己。关键在于发现你天生擅长、世界需要、且能规模化做成产品的事情，最终这件事对你来说会变得毫不费力。是的，总需要付出努力，但你会乐在其中。

You, you'll feel like play to you. And modern society gives us that opportunity. You know, if you were two thousand years ago, you born a farm, your choices are very limited, right? You're gonna do stuff on that farm now. 对你而言，这就像在玩耍。现代社会给了我们这样的机会。想想两千年前，如果你生在农场，选择就非常有限，对吧？你只能在那片农场上劳作。

You can literally wake up and you can move to a different city. You can switch careers. You can switch jobs. You can change the people that you are with, uh, you know, you can change so many things about who you are and who you are within what you're doing, that there is infinite opportunity out there for you, literally infinite. 如今你完全可以醒来就搬去另一个城市，转换职业赛道，更换工作，甚至改变社交圈。你能改变关于自身定位和事业方向的方方面面，眼前的机会是无限的，真正意义上的无限可能。

And so it's much Better to treat this like a search function to find the people who need you the most, to find the work that needs you the most, to find the place your best suit to be at. And it's worthwhile to spend time in that exploitation before diving into exploiting the biggest mistake in a world with so many choices is premature commitment. If you premature to commit to being a lawyer or a doctor, and now you've got like now five years invested into that, you might have just completely missed. You might just end up in the wrong profession, in the wrong place, the wrong people for thirty years, your life granning away. And yes, the best time to figure that out was before, but the second best time is now. 因此，更好的做法是将此视为搜索功能，寻找最需要你的人，寻找最需要你的工作，寻找最适合你的位置。在这个充满选择的世界里，投入时间进行这种探索是值得的，过早承诺才是最大的错误。如果你过早承诺成为律师或医生，如今已投入五年时间，可能完全错过了真正适合的领域。你可能会在错误的职业、错误的地方、与错误的人共处三十年，任由生命虚度。是的，最佳时机确实是在过去，但次佳时机就是现在。

So I just changed IT and also presumed ly kill things that aren't working very quickly. By default. 所以我调整了策略，默认情况下会迅速终止那些效果不佳的事情。

you should kill everything you know. If you can't decide, the answer is no, uh, and most things just be saying no to that part of my keeping my calendar free is just by default ying note everything. Do I want to create a calendar just to add your event right, or to add your need or your desire? 你应该拒绝所有已知选项。如果犹豫不决，答案就是拒绝。事实上，我保持日程表空闲的秘诀就是默认拒绝所有邀约。难道我要专门为你的活动、需求或愿望来调整日程吗？

One of the other things about the early on and life, you're looking for opportunities. So you're saying yes to everything and that is a phase that you go through. That is the exploration phase. 在人生的早期阶段，你会不断寻找机会。那时你对所有事情都说"好"，这是每个人必经的探索期。

Later, when you found the thing you were going to work on, you're in the exploitation phase. You have to say no to everything by default. And if you don't say, notice everything by default. If you have to even explicit go out anyway to say no to something that will take up time. 当你找到真正想投入的事业后，就进入了深耕期。这时你必须默认对一切说"不"。如果不这样做，就等于默认接受所有干扰。有时甚至需要主动出击，明确拒绝那些会占用时间的事情。

For example, you there there are lot of people out there were into hostile culture and and a big piece of a hostile l culture is like, well, you're not gna get something if you don't ask for IT so theyll hustle people, they'll always be sending you request messages. Yes, this is a famous person problem, but I have IT and people are always asking me for things. And I kind of square when I get these messages, and i'm sure you get these two text messages, emAiling, hey, Chris, my friend, so and socially really be on your podcasting. 比如现在很多人崇尚"索取文化"，这种文化的核心逻辑就是"你不开口就得不到"。他们会不断骚扰你，总是发各种请求信息。没错，这是名人常遇到的问题，我也深有体会。收到这类信息时我总很为难，相信你也经常收到这种短信和邮件："嗨克里斯老友，特别希望你能来我的播客..."

You should come to my event. You should write a forward from my book. And you kind of square when you get this right if to figure out how to say no. "来参加我的活动吧""给我的书写个序言吧"。收到这种请求时确实很为难，关键是要学会如何优雅拒绝。

And one of things that I learned along the way is that if you wouldn't ask somebody else to do IT and then you get that request yourself, you can just dismiss IT. You don't have to respond. You don't even let you enter your brain. 在这段经历中我学到的一点是：如果某项请求你都不会转交给别人处理，那么当它直接找上你时，大可直接无视。不必回应，甚至别让它进入你的思考范围。

You have to be delete emails and text messages without flinching. If you want to scale and scaling is very important. Scaling your time is really important. Every interruption will take you out of flow. So the only way you can remain inflow if you get either very good at ignoring these things, by default, closing yourself off like a hermit, like our mutual friend inferiors, or you just become emotionally capable of not registering these as something that causes turbulence inside of you that not . 你必须做到面不改色地删除邮件和短信。想要提升效率——这非常重要，管理好时间至关重要。每次干扰都会打断你的心流状态。保持专注的唯一方式，要么像我们那位隐居的共友那样，练就自动屏蔽干扰的本事；要么就培养情绪免疫力，让这些琐事无法在你内心激起波澜。

registering IT emotionally thing, is that fundamental. It's so fundamental . 这种情绪免疫能力是根基性的，它至关重要。

to so many things in life. okay. 对人生中许多事都是如此。明白了吗？

Can we dig in to that a little bit? Is that because, again, i've only seen you as you right? I didn't know twenty years ago, I didn't know you was a child, so i've only seen you with this holistic s selfishness, the integrated self prioritization, whatever. I what we all selfish is fine. 我们能深入探讨一下吗？是不是因为——毕竟我只认识现在的你，对吧？二十年前我不认识你，不知道你小时候的样子，所以我看到的只是这种完整的、自我中心的特质，那种全面自我优先的状态。我觉得某种程度上自私很正常。

I'll take selfish and selfish. I'm very selfish person. Don't contact me. 我承认自私，我就是个非常自私的人。别来联系我。

Yeah, did that emotional reality? I also get the sense to that maybe people have lived obligation life for so long that they actually kind of struggle to tap into what IT is that they want. They've hidden their once and their desires and their needs, and y've d prioritized themselves so much for so long. 是啊，这种情感现实你体会过吗？我还感觉到，可能人们活在义务中太久了，以至于他们真的很难触及自己真正想要什么。他们把自己的愿望、欲望和需求都藏起来了，长久以来如此彻底地把自己放在次要位置。

So what do I want? Actually, what? What is IT want to go to this thing or not? Because all i've done is be fucking puppet red, right? I've been marianne's by other people's desires for so, so, so long I can't even tap into that anymore and saying no feels like AA war crime. 所以我到底想要什么？说真的，到底是什么？我是想去参加这个活动还是不想？因为我这辈子都在当该死的提线木偶，懂吗？我被他人的欲望操纵了太久太久，久到甚至无法触及真实的自己，而说"不"简直像犯下战争罪。

So so I think it's really good to be able to view your own mind and your own thoughts objectively. And that is the big benefit. Meditation IT creates a small gap between your conscious observation, self and your mind, and that lets you then look at your thoughts and evaluate them a little bit like you with a third party's statements. 所以我认为能够客观地看待自己的内心和想法是非常有益的。这正是冥想带来的最大好处——它在你的意识观察者、自我与思维之间创造了一个微小间隙，让你能像审视第三方陈述那样，稍稍抽离地评估自己的念头。

And if you just take your mind to be you and they're integrated in one of the same at all times and you're reacting from the mind, then you're not even question things that come into your mind. Anything that comes in that create a reaction will immediate create a reaction. But if you can observe your thoughts a little bit and not in some wu way, but you can even interest do with the therapy, you can do with a journal, and you can do anyway. 如果你始终将思维等同于自我，让两者完全融为一体，直接从思维做出反应，那么你甚至不会质疑脑海中浮现的任何想法。任何引发反应的念头都会立即触发你的反应。但如果你能稍微观察自己的思维（不必用什么玄妙的方式，通过心理治疗、写日记或任何其他方法都能做到这一点）...

You like can just take long walks. You don't have to meditate and do little position, and all that is unnecessary. But if you can observe your own thoughts and view them a little objectively, then you can start being, uh, a little more, choose a little more critical, and you can realize that there are no problems in the real world other than maybe things that inflict pain on your body. 你完全可以只是散个长步，不必正襟危坐地冥想，那些形式都不重要。关键在于，如果你能客观审视自己的念头，就能开始更审慎地做出选择，并意识到现实世界中其实不存在真正的问题——除了那些可能对身体造成伤害的事物。

Everything else has to become a problem in your mind. First, if you have to view IT interpreted and create narrative that IT is a problem before IT becomes a problem, and then you realize that a lot of your emotional energy is spent on reacting to things, that your mind is automatically saying our problems, uh, and you don't need all those problems. Do you really need that many problems in your life? Again, I would say try to focus on just one overarching problem and then go solve that problem. 其他一切都会在你心中变成问题。首先，如果你必须将某件事视为问题并构建叙事，在它真正成为问题之前就认定它是问题，那么你会发现自己大量情绪能量都耗费在被动反应上——你的大脑会自动把各种事情标记为"我们的问题"，呃...其实你根本不需要这么多问题。你的人生真的需要这么多问题吗？我建议你试着只聚焦一个核心问题，然后去解决它。

Like, if you want to be successful, define successful completely. Focus on that in everything else. When IT enters your mind, that becomes a problem with the judgment about the girl walking down the street or the car that just cut in funny you or whether it's like you know this your accountant, this stupid thing like yes, it's gonna triggers you but observe for a moment that like it's triggering me, i've created a problem. 比如说，如果你想获得成功，就要完整定义成功的标准。让这个目标主导其他一切。当杂念进入脑海——比如对街上女孩的评头论足，或是被超车时感到恼火，又或是纠结于会计的某个小失误——这些都会触发你的情绪。但请稍作观察：它正在触发我，是我自己制造了这个问题。

Do I really want to have this problem right now to only spend the energy on this problem? Or do I want that going somewhere else? And IT IT doesn't have to be that over. 此刻我真的要把精力耗费在这种问题上吗？还是应该把能量导向更有价值的地方？这件事根本不必如此纠结。

You don't have to. The mind. Mud wrestling with itself is also a problem. 你完全不必。心智的自我角力本身也是个问题。

But not to do that, I have my problems, have got problems, and I have a real problem about fixing my problem. 但不去解决的话，我确实存在问题，遇到了麻烦，而且对于如何解决这些问题我真的很困扰。

Yeah, exactly. So just you're going to be much happier and much more focused again. I think happiness and focus and success can kind of compliment each other. 没错，正是如此。这样你会重新变得快乐许多，注意力也能更集中。我认为快乐、专注和成功其实是相辅相成的。

You're gonna have much more energy. Just think about this mental energy. You going to much more mental energy to focus on the actual problems you want to solve. 你会拥有更多精力。想想这种精神能量——你将获得更充沛的脑力来专注于真正想要解决的难题。

If you don't start unconsciously, subconsciously, reactive vely picking up problems everywhere. So before anything can be a problem that takes up your emotional energy, you have to accept IT as a problem. You can be choose about your problems. And i'm not thing i'm perfect in that regard, but I think i'm Better than I used to be. 除非你开始无意识地、下意识地到处被动接收问题。在任何事情消耗你情感能量成为负担之前，你必须先将其认定为问题。你可以主动选择自己的困扰。这方面我不敢说完美，但确实比过去进步了。

A lots of people are addicted to solving problems. It's so much so that sometimes people create problems when we don't have any, simply so that we can solve them. 许多人沉迷于解决问题，甚至到了没有问题时也要制造问题来解的地步。

We have that going on. And then even worse, as we take on problems that we can affect. So you know, another one of my little quips, was you a rational person, a can a sort of the a rational person, you should should cultivate indifference that things that are out of their control, right? Uh, or a rational person can find peace by cultivating indifference of things that are out of their control. 我们都有这种倾向。更糟的是，我们还会主动揽下那些本可避免的麻烦。就像我常说的俏皮话——一个理性的人，应该培养对无法掌控之事的漠然，对吧？或者说，智者能通过看淡力所不及之事获得内心平静。

Uh, and i'm as guilty as anybody of doom surfing on x or social media and getting worked up about things that I can do anything about, right? Like do I want to be fighting those battles in my mind when I literally cannot do anything about IT? So if you find yourself looping on a problem like you're watching the news too much and you're getting caught up in a problem you can do anything about, um you have to step away from that. 我也和所有人一样，会在 X 或社交媒体上刷末日新闻，为无能为力的事情焦虑。当我对某些事完全束手无策时，真的值得在脑海里打这些虚拟战役吗？所以如果你发现自己陷入这种循环——比如过度关注新闻、纠结于无法改变的问题——你必须主动抽离。

And uh, modern media is a delivery mechanism for memetic viruses and not what's happened now you know one hundred years ago, five hundred years ago, if something wasn't happening in your immediately facility, you want to hear about IT, IT wouldn't a problem for you. But now every single one of the world's problems has turned into a memetic virus, which is going into the battle field of the news and is trying to infect your mind in real time, so that, yes, so that you become obsessed with the warn ukraine, which is really far away. You get obsessed with climate change and you get obsessed with AI dom, or you get obsessed with and there's nothing as riveting as the old religion. 呃，现代媒体就像模因病毒的传播载体——要知道在一百年前、五百年前，若某件事没发生在你眼皮底下，你压根不会听说，自然也不会困扰你。但如今全球每个问题都化作了模因病毒，它们涌入新闻战场，试图实时感染你的思维。于是你会对远在天边的俄乌战争如鲠在喉，会对气候变化寝食难安，会对 AI 末日论耿耿于怀——这些让人着魔的焦虑，简直比古老宗教更摄人心魄。

The world is ending. The world is ending. Pay attention, the world is ending. 世界要完蛋了。世界要完蛋了。快注意，世界要完蛋了。

And if you don't. 而如果你不关注。

to send for complex global, complex global scale. And I would argue that large percentage of population are essentially just infected with these tic viruses that are taken over their brain and are causing them to do incredible generation about things that probably aren't even true or are greatly exaggerated. 就会陷入复杂的全球性焦虑循环。我认为相当比例的人群根本就是被这些思维病毒劫持了大脑，驱使他们对那些未必真实或严重夸大之事，产生歇斯底里的过度反应。

But even to the extent they are true, there are things that person can do nothing about, and they should put their own house in order first. So, you know, another little line and half for myself is your families is broken, but you're going to fix the world, right? People are running out there to try and fix the world with my good right. And I think IT defies credibility. If you can't fix your own life first, i'm not going to take you seriously if you can't fix your own life, like all these philosophers who you know seem like people you emulate and they are smart or like these brilliant celebrities and they go off and commit suicide while you just kind of validated your whole way of life it's like that line of in no country for all men where the killers waiting for the protagonist and protection oni shows up and the killers as well you know, if your set of rules brought you here, then what good are your rules didn't work? Um IIII am holistically selfish in in that I want to be objectively successful in everything I set out to want a uh you have one life. 但即便这些说法属实，有些事个人也无能为力，他们应该先管好自己的事。所以，你知道，我给自己又加了一句半话——你的家庭支离破碎，却妄想拯救世界是吗？人们总爱打着高尚的旗号去改变世界。我觉得这简直荒谬至极。如果连自己的生活都理不顺，像那些你们效仿的哲学家——他们看似睿智，或是那些光鲜的名流——结果却走上绝路，而你却以此佐证自己的人生选择，这就像《老无所依》里那句台词：当杀手等着主角时，警长出现了，杀手说"如果你的处世准则把你带到这般境地，那这套准则还有什么用？"呃...我是个彻头彻尾的利己主义者，因为我追求在每个目标上都取得客观意义上的成功——毕竟人生只有一次。

don't settle for mediocrity. Don't settle for mediocrity. 不要甘于平庸。不要甘于平庸。

And and I think the only will debate intelligence, for example, right? We talk about IQ tests and all that. But I think the only true test of intelligence is if you get what you want out of life, and there are two parts to that, one is getting what you want, so you know how to get IT. And the second is wanting the right things, knowing what to want in the first place. I could want to be, you know, six of eight baseball player, and i'm not going to get that. 我认为唯一值得讨论的智力标准，比如说智商测试之类的东西，其实真正的智力考验在于你是否能获得自己想要的人生。这包含两个层面：第一是懂得如何获取所求，第二则是明白自己真正该追求什么。比如我可能幻想成为职业棒球选手，但这显然不切实际。

So it's wanting the wrong thing. Such wanting . 这说明追求了错误的目标。

something that you can't get . 执着于无法实现的事物，

is also wanting something that you don't want yeah . 本质上也是在追逐自己并不真正渴望的东西。

wanting something that's a boobie prize. There are planning of boobie Prices up or two about Prices that are just not worth having or they create their own problems. 渴望那些不过是安慰奖的东西。有些人正计划设立一两个根本不值得拥有、甚至会带来自身问题的奖项。

If you're not carefully, you can end up in a place in life not only that you don't want to be, but one that you didn't even . 如果不小心谨慎，你最终可能会陷入一种不仅自己不想要、甚至从未想过要到达的人生境地。

mean to get to that if you're kind of proceeding unconsciously. And usually, I think people end up there because they are are going on autopilot with sort of society and are all the people's expectations. So uh you know all out of guilt or out of like, uh, mimic desire know Peter tile has this whole thing from the aia are about how mimetic desires are. 如果你在无意识地前行，往往就会走到那一步。我认为人们之所以会陷入这种境地，通常是因为他们开着自动驾驶模式，盲目跟随社会和他人期望。你知道的，可能是出于愧疚，或是模仿性欲望——彼得·蒂尔在《从零到一》中就详细阐述过这种模仿性欲望。

Our desires are picked up from other people. And some of those automatic bit society like, you know go to law school, go to meet school, go to whatever go to business school um or they might be from watching what your friends are doing and you know the other monkeys are doing, or you might just be what your parents expectations, or I might be a guilt. You know guilt is just society's voice speaking in your head, socially programmes. 我们的欲望往往是从他人那里习得的。有些是社会自动灌输的，比如"去读法学院""去医学院""去商学院"之类的；有些可能是观察朋友行为后产生的——就像其他猴子有样学样；也可能是父母期望的投射，或是出于愧疚感。要知道，愧疚感本质上就是社会在你脑海中植入的声音，一种社会编程。

So if they go low and do things that are good for the tribe, um but I think the the best outcomes come when you think IT through for yourself and decide for yourself. And I don't think people spend enough time deciding. For example, we run on these uh four years cycles. 所以如果他们降低标准，做些对群体有益的事，嗯，但我觉得最好的结果往往来自你亲自深思熟虑后自主决定。我认为人们花在做决定上的时间远远不够。比如，我们遵循着这种四年周期。

You know in sick valley you go join and start up, you invest your stock over four years. That's the standard OK. Um uh in um college you know you go for four years, high school you go for four years, some things take longer. 在硅谷，你加入初创公司，股票期权分四年兑现——这是标准模式。上大学要四年，高中也是四年，有些事耗时更久。

You know you have children, they hit puberty nine years later has like a nine years cycle until that relationship changes. Um but we're used to these fairly long cycles, multiple cycles in which we are committed to things. You go to law school, you know, for five years cycle. 比如养育孩子，青春期要到九年后才到来，这种亲子关系转变就有个九年周期。但我们已经习惯了这些相当长的周期，在这些多轮周期里我们对事物做出承诺。读法学院就是个五年周期。

You go, be a lawyer, forty years cycle. These are very long cycles. The amount of time we spend deciding what to do and who to do IT with very short, very, very short, right? We spend, you know, three months deciding, one month deciding on a job where we're going to be for ten years or five years. 当律师则是四十年周期。这些周期都非常漫长。而我们用来决定做什么、与谁共事的时间却极其短暂，极其短暂对吧？可能花三个月甚至一个月就决定了未来五年或十年要从事的工作。

And because a lot of discoveries that dependent where the next thing you find out the path is dependent on where you were on the previous path, you sort of start going down this vector. That is a very long distance. People decide previously which city to live in, and that's going decide who their friends are with, their jobs are, their opportunity, the weather, their food supply, their air supply, quality of life. You know, it's such an important decision, but you will spend so little time thinking me through. I would argue that if you're making a four year decision, spend a year thinking IT through like really . 由于许多发现都依赖于你当前所处的位置——下一步的探索路径取决于你之前走过的路，你便会沿着某个特定方向不断深入。这是一个影响深远的长期过程。人们早先选择的居住城市，将决定他们未来的交友圈、职业发展、机遇获取、气候环境、食物来源、空气质量以及生活品质。要知道，这明明是个至关重要的决定，但人们投入的思考时间却少得可怜。我认为，如果要做个影响四年的决定，就该花上整整一年时间深思熟虑——真正意义上的深思熟虑。

thinking IT through. Yeah exactly. There's the secretary theory. 仔细想想。没错，就是秘书理论。

Yeah the secretary theory is this computer science professor is trying to figure out a how much time you should spend interviewing secretary and then how long to keep the secretary. So that says it's gona secretary for ten years. IT keep searching for, you know, one year, two years, three years, one month, two months. 秘书理论说的是：一位计算机科学教授试图计算出，你应该花多少时间面试秘书，以及该雇佣秘书多久。比如要雇佣十年秘书的话，就需要持续寻找——可能是一年、两年、三年，或者一个月、两个月。

What is the optimal time? Uh, and IT turns out that the optimal time is somewhere around a third, about a third of the way through. You take the best person you've work with and try to find someone that good or Better. 最优时间是多少？结果发现最佳时间点大约在三分之一处。你选择目前为止遇到过最优秀的人选，然后尝试找到与之相当或更优秀的人。

So by the time you're gone about a third way through, you have extreme seen enough that you now have a sense of what the bar is. And then anybody who meet to exceeds that bar is good enough. And this applies to dating. 当你进行到约三分之一进程时，已经见识足够多，能明确判断标准。之后任何达到或超越这个标准的人选都算合格。这套理论同样适用于约会场景。

This applies to jobs and careers. This applies generally. But the interesting thing about the secretary theory is that it's actually not time based. It's not based on one third of the time. It's iteration. 这适用于工作和职业发展。这是一个普遍适用的原则。但秘书理论的有趣之处在于，它实际上并非基于时间维度，不是以三分之一时间为基准，而是基于迭代次数。

the number of the number of . 这个数字的数值。

shots of you to can go, that's right. So you want to have lots and lots of iteration so . 你能尝试的次数越多越好，正是如此。因此你需要进行大量反复的迭代。

that you need to bail out quickly and you need to be decisive quickly, that you need to take opportunities quickly and bail out quickly . 你必须快速止损，必须迅速决断，必须把握机遇又及时抽身。

like you go back and you look through failed relationships. Uh, probably the biggest regret will be staying in the relationship exactly. You should have left sooner. 回顾过往失败的感情经历，最大的遗憾往往就是停留太久。你本该早些抽身离去。

The moment you knew wasn't onna work out, you should have moved on. So in that sense, I think malm glad will popularize this ID of ten thousand hours to mastery. I would say it's actually ten thousand iterations to mastery. 当意识到感情无法挽回时，就该及时放手。从这个角度看，我认为"一万小时定律"的流行很有意义。但更准确地说，应该是"一万次迭代方能精通"。

It's not actually ten thousand at some on no number, but it's about the number of iterations that drive a learning curve. And iteration is not repetition. Repetition is a different thing. 关键不在于具体数字，而在于推动学习曲线的迭代次数。迭代不等于简单重复，两者有本质区别。

Repeating is doing the same thing or over iteration is modifying IT with the learning and then doing another version of IT. So that's a correction. So if you get ten thousand other corrections in anything, you will be an expert. 重复是机械地做同一件事，而迭代是汲取经验后改进做法，创造出新版本。这种修正过程才是核心——在任何领域完成一万次这样的修正，你终将成为专家。

Don't partner with cynics and pessimists. You mentioned there about the people who've got a niki going on at home and are trying to fix the world. But a lot of the time that cynicism and pessimism we find in ourselves, we see the world whether we want to, whether or it's because we've been by to what the news or the negative people around us have said or it's a bit more kind of endogenous ous than that. It's just sort of in is the way that we see the world. How can people avoid sync m and pessimism within themselves? 不要与愤世嫉俗者和悲观主义者为伍。你提到那些在家里喋喋不休却妄想拯救世界的人。但很多时候，我们内心的这种愤世嫉俗和悲观情绪，往往源于我们看待世界的方式——无论是因为受到新闻或周围消极人群的影响，还是源自更深层的内在倾向。这种世界观就像烙印般根植于我们眼中。人们该如何避免自身陷入这种愤世嫉俗与悲观情绪？

A sync m pessimism is a tough one. IT were naturally hardwired for IT. Again, I go back evolution as i'm sorry to keep harping and evolution, but within biology, there's very few good explains for a theory of evolution by natural selection is probably the best one. 愤世嫉俗的悲观主义确实棘手。我们天生就容易陷入这种思维模式。虽然我反复提及进化论可能显得老生常谈，但从生物学角度来看，除了自然选择进化论，确实鲜有更完善的解释体系。

So if you can't explain something about life or psychology or human nature through evolution, that you probably don't have a good theory for IT. And I would say that pessimism is another one that comes out of this, which is in the natural environment, you're hardwired to be pessimistic because let's say that I see something rustling in the woods. And if I move towards IT and IT turns out to be food and pray, then good, I get to eat one meal. 因此，如果用进化论无法解释生命、心理或人性的某些现象，那很可能说明你对此缺乏完善的理论。我认为悲观主义正是由此衍生的——在自然环境中，人类天生倾向于悲观。比如当我看见树林里有东西沙沙作响，如果靠近后发现是食物或猎物，那很好，我能饱餐一顿。

But if IT turns to be a pretty, I get eaten and that's the end of that. So we are hardwired to avoid ruin um and and you know dying. So we are naturally hardwired to be pessimist, but modern society is very different despite whatever problems may have. 但如果那其实是掠食者，我就会沦为盘中餐，就此终结。所以我们天生具备避免毁灭和死亡的防御机制，这种悲观倾向根植于本能。但现代社会已截然不同，无论存在何种问题。

A mother society, IT is far, far safer than living in the jungle and just trying to survive. Uh, and the opportunities and the upside are nonlinear. For example, when you're investing, if you short to stock you, the most money can make us two x, you just lose, you know, the stock kle is zero. 母系社会相比在丛林中求生要安全千万倍。而且现代社会的机遇和收益呈非线性增长——比如做空股票时，最大收益只有两倍，但若股价归零，亏损却是无底洞。

You doubled your money. But if the stock is the next in video and IT goes one hundred x or a thousand x, you make a lot of money. So upside through because of leverage is nearly unlimited. Uh, also in modern society, because there are so many different people you can interact with, if you go on a date and to fail, they're infinite more people to going to date with. In a tribal system, there might have been twenty people, and you can even get through all of them. 你的财富翻倍了。但如果这只股票成为下一个视频或 IT 行业的百倍甚至千倍股，你就能赚得盆满钵满。因此杠杆带来的上涨空间几乎是无限的。在现代社会，由于你可以接触形形色色的人，即便某次约会失败，还有无数潜在对象可供选择。而在部落体系中，可能总共只有二十个适婚对象，甚至能全部尝试一遍。

So mom side is far more forgiving a failure, and you just have to save neocortical realized and override that to realize that you are much more running a search function to find the thing that will work, and then that one thing will pay off in massive compounding. Once you find your mate for the rest of your life, you find your wife for your husband, then you can compound in that relationship. It's OK. 所以现代社会的容错率要高得多，你只需保持新皮质层的清醒认知，并克服心理障碍——要明白你其实是在运行搜索函数寻找最佳匹配，一旦成功就会获得巨大的复利回报。当你找到共度余生的伴侣，无论是妻子还是丈夫，就能在这段关系中持续收获情感复利。之前的失败都无足轻重。

If you had fifty failed dates in between, the same way, once you find the one business you meant apple into and will compound return is okay. If you had fifty small field ventures or fifty small failed job interviews, IT doesn't the number of failure doesn't matter. And so there's no point in being a pessimist. 同理，在商业领域，只要最终找到像苹果公司这样能产生复利回报的企业，期间经历五十次创业失败或五十次求职碰壁都无关紧要。失败次数根本不重要，因此悲观主义毫无意义。

You want to be an optimist, but I would say you want to be you want to be skeptical about specific things. Every specific opportunity is probably a fail, but you want to be optimistic in the general. In the general, you want to be like something in here is going to work. 你想做个乐观主义者，但我认为你应当对具体事物保持怀疑。每个具体机会都可能失败，但要对整体保持乐观。从宏观上看，你要相信总有些事情会成功。

How do you never get attention . 如何永远不引人注目

when exactly as I said, i'm optimistic in the general that if something feels right now, then this is a little wool. But IT wasn't meant to be IT was a learning experience that was an iteration as long as I learned something from IT is a win. If I didn't learn from its a loss. 正如我所说，我对整体保持乐观——如果当下某件事感觉不对劲，那只是个小问题。但这并非终点，而是学习的过程，是快速迭代的环节。只要从中有所收获，就是胜利；若毫无领悟，才是失败。

But as long as you're learning and you keep iterating fast and cutting your losses quickly, then when you find the right thing, you have to be optimistic and compound into IT. So you don't want to jump into the first thing, you don't want to marry the first person you date necessarily unless you've got very lucky um but you you want to investigate and explore very, very quickly until you find the match and then you have to be willing to go all in. You have to be in the movie of chips at the table. So both those um both those approaches are required. 但只要你持续学习、快速迭代并及时止损，当发现正确方向时，就必须保持乐观并全力投入。不要草率投入首个机会，也不必与初恋对象仓促定终身（除非运气爆棚）。你需要的是极速探索验证，直至找到匹配项，然后敢于全押筹码。这两种策略缺一不可。

So it's a bobl strategy. It's sort of black or it's White and most people stuck . 这是一种非黑即白的策略。大多数人都会陷入这种极端思维。

in half. I pessimist, optimist, scenic, a intros extrovert. These are very self limiting. Humans are very dynamic. 悲观主义者、乐观主义者、内向者、外向者——这些标签都极具局限性。人类是充满动态变化的。

There are times when you feel like being introverted, the times when you feel like being extroverted. There are contexts in which will be pessimistic. There are contexts in which will be optimistic. Leave all the labels alone. 有时你想独处，有时又想与人交往；某些情境下你会悲观，另一些情境下又会乐观。别被这些标签束缚。

It's Better just to look at the problem at hand, look at reality the way IT is, try to take yourself out of the equation and in a sense like obviously your involved but motivates reasoning is the worst kind of reasoning. Uh, you're not going to find truth through highly motivational reason. You have to be objective and objective means trying to take yourself out of IT as much as possible, at least your personality out of IT as as possible. 更好的方式是直面问题本身，客观看待现实，尽量把自己从等式中抽离。当然你无法完全置身事外，但动机性推理是最糟糕的推理方式。你无法通过高度情绪化的思考发现真相，必须保持客观——这意味着要尽可能剔除个人因素，至少要把个性影响降到最低。

And so to the extent you run with this thick identity and personality is onna cloud, your judgment is going to try and lock you into the past. If you say i'm a depressed, unhappy person yeah, i'm going to be unhappy that's a way of walking yourself into your past, even saying, I have tram, my ptsd yeah you you feel something. There are memories, their flashes. 当你带着这种厚重的身份认同和个性在云端行走时，你的判断力就会试图将你禁锢在过去。如果你说"我是个抑郁、不快乐的人"，那么你就会真的不快乐——这是将自己引向过去的一种方式。即便你说"我有创伤，我有 PTSD"，那些记忆和闪回确实会让你产生感受。

There are occasional bad feelings. But don't define yourself by IT because then you will lock you into your identity and disco loop on IT. It's Better to stay flexible because reality is always changing and you have to build, adapt to IT. 偶尔出现糟糕的情绪很正常。但不要用这些来定义自己，否则你会被锁死在固定身份里，陷入恶性循环。保持灵活性更为明智，因为现实永远在变化，你必须学会构建和适应。

Adaptation is also intelligence. Adaptation is survival. Adaptation is kind of how you're here. You're here because you're adapter and your ancestors or or adapters. So to adapt, you will do see things clearly and if you're seeing them through your own identity is going to cloud your judgement. 适应力本身就是智慧。适应意味着生存。你能存在于世，正是因为你和祖先都是适应者。要真正适应环境，就必须看清事物本质——而若透过身份滤镜观察，只会蒙蔽你的判断力。

A quick aside, you've probably heard me talk about element before. In fact, you might be thinking for take ris, will you up about element? And the answer is no, I won't. 顺便说一句，你可能听我提过"元素"这个概念。也许此刻你正想着："这次会讲元素吗？"答案是：不会。

Because when I take IT, I genuinely feel the difference. I genuinely believe that proper hydration makes a massive difference to your performance. So i'm going to keep talking about IT until you start drinking. 因为当我使用它时，确实感受到了不同。我真心相信科学补水能显著提升身体表现。所以我会持续安利这款产品，直到你也开始饮用。

Element is a tasty electronic drink mix with everything that you need, nothing that you don't. Each grabble your stick park contains a signs back electorate ratio but sodium paci um and magnesium with no sugar, no coLoring, no artificial ingredients or any other junk. IT plays a critical role in reducing muscle crimes and fatigue, while optimizing brain health, regulating appetite and curbing cravings. Element 是一款风味绝佳的电子冲饮，含有人体必需成分，绝无多余添加。每支便携装都精准配比了电解质、钠、钾和镁，零糖零色素，不含人工添加剂或其他有害物质。它在缓解肌肉痉挛疲劳、促进大脑健康、调节食欲抑制渴望方面具有关键作用。

This orange flavor in a cold glass of water, this I have started in my morning every single day for over three years now. And I genuinely feel the difference verses when I don't. Best of all, they having no questions, ask grief when policy with an unlimited inferable. 这款橙味冲剂加入冰水后，已成为我三年来雷打不动的晨间仪式。与未饮用时相比，身体状态确实判若两人。最棒的是，他们提供无忧售后政策——无限期无条件退换。

So I can buy IT and try IT for as long as you want. And if you don't like you for any reason, they'll just give you your money back. You don't even need to return the box. 你可以随心购买试用，若因任何原因不满意，无需退货即可获得全额退款。

That's how confidently are that you love IT. Plus, they offer free shipping within the U. S. And right now, get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with your first box by going to the link in the description below or heading to drink LMNT dot com slash modern wisdom that drink LMNT dot com flash modern wisdom.这就是我们确信你会爱上它的原因。此外，他们还提供美国境内免运费服务。现在通过点击下方描述中的链接，或访问 drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom，首单即可免费获赠八种口味的尝鲜套装。

Moving on to so of thinking about happiness. If we see topic of yours that to. 接下来谈谈关于幸福的思考方式。如果我们看到你感兴趣的话题。

it's honestly the one that I feel these qualified take . 老实说，这是我觉得最有资格谈论的话题。

about is IT like a guy that got long arms teaching how to a bench press, or do the rev. Tall teaching how to dead left someone that feels like they came from behind the eight ball yeah. 是关于一个长臂猿教人如何卧推，还是高个子牧师教人如何硬拉？就像那些感觉天生劣势却逆袭成功的人，对吧。

is you're asking a crazy person about their thoughts so just started through it's nothing . 你只是在询问一个疯子的想法，所以别太当回事，这没什么。

is still more about peace and IT . 更多还是关于平和与 IT。

is about joy. This is one of the overlook words that means different things in different people, some not even sure what community in the same language. What is happiness? I think it's just basically being okay with where you are. 关于快乐。这是个常被忽视的词汇，对不同的人意味着不同的事物，有些人甚至不确定用同一种语言如何描述。什么是幸福？我认为基本上就是安于现状。

Not wanting not wanting things . 无欲无求。

be different in the way they are, not having the sense that anything is missing in this moment. 以独特的方式存在，而非感到此刻有所缺失。

needing something to change your current positive situation, being contingent on IT adjustment. 需要依赖外部改变来维持当前积极状态，受制于条件调整。

I'm getting something from the outside world. Ironically, I think most people, if you were to ask them when they were happier for a sustained period time, not for a brief moment, because pleasure can overwrite happiness and create the illusion of happiness. But if you ask people when they were happy for a sustained period time, they were probably doing some variation of nothing. 我正从外界获取着什么。讽刺的是，我认为多数人若被问及持续幸福（非短暂快感，因为愉悦会覆盖幸福制造幻觉）的时期，他们很可能处于某种"无为"状态。

That's interesting because in the chase is this sort of black, this contingency. 这很有趣，因为追逐中暗藏这种条件性的阴霾。

that's right. But then get bored if you just sit around all the time, you get bored so you want to venture, you want surprise, like there's a funny thought experiment of the bliss machine, right? Which is suppose I could drill a hole in your head and put electrode and and they did this with monkeys, and I can put a wire in there, and I can stimulate just the right party of brain. I can put you in bliss, and you just been blessed. Would you want . 确实如此。但如果你整天无所事事，就会感到无聊，所以你想要冒险，渴望惊喜。就像那个有趣的"极乐机器"思想实验——假设我在你头上钻个孔插入电极（科学家确实对猴子做过这种实验），通过电线刺激大脑特定区域，就能让你持续处于极乐状态。你愿意永远沉浸在这种人造极乐中吗？

that might be . 这种状态可能...

nice for how long do IT? 能持续多久才算够呢？

I'll tell you, right? So most people will say. 我告诉你吧，多数人的回答是...

well, I don't want that. I want meaning. I don't want just place. I want meaning and you like, okay, well, i'll put an electoral in there. I'll give you meeting. 好吧，我不想要那样。我想要意义。我不只是想要一个位置，我想要意义。然后你会说，行吧，那我就安排个选举活动，给你个会议。

How about that? And if you kind of run the start experiment long enough, I think most people realize actually what I want is I want surprise. I want in. 你觉得怎么样？如果你把这种初始实验进行得足够久，我想大多数人会意识到，其实我想要的是惊喜。我想要参与其中。

I want the world to surprise me. And I want to rustle with IT in ways that are somewhat predictable but somewhat not. And you kind of end up back where we started. 我希望这个世界能给我惊喜。我想以某种可预测又不可完全预测的方式与之互动。最终你又会回到我们最初讨论的问题上。

So II don't know if necessarily for some people, pure happiness is the ultimate goal. They want, you know, just be blissfully happy wherever they are, whatever they are. But I think other people, most people would say, well, i'm here in this world. 所以我不确定对某些人来说，纯粹的快乐是否就是终极目标。他们可能只想无论身处何地、境遇如何，都能幸福快乐。但我认为其他人，或者说大多数人会说，我来到这个世界。

I'm here in this life. I don't understand IT or why, but I want to be, I want to be engaged. I want to be surprised. 此生此刻，我就在这里。虽不懂信息技术及其缘由，但我渴望参与其中，渴望被惊喜击中。

I want to do things. I want accomplish things. I want to want things and then get them right. That's kind of the whole game that we're . 我渴望行动，渴望成就，渴望心有所向并精准达成。这大概就是我们所有人正在玩的游戏规则。

all playing here. Surprises are really interesting, predictably total bro science here. But i'm pretty sure that that's kind of how dopamine works, that things were a bit that are the new expected that within that, that means that if you for the perennial insecure over achiever s that Chloe for control, that really want to be able to the schedule is perfectly done. 惊喜确实妙不可言——虽然这么说可能显得很"兄弟科学"，但我相当确定多巴胺就是这么运作的：当新鲜感成为预期之内的常态，对于那些常年缺乏安全感的过度成就者（比如克洛伊这类控制狂）来说，他们渴望把日程安排得天衣无缝。

And we know the iteration. We know where we going to be at this time. You're in some ways, I guess, reducing down the capacity for surprise because everything has become very contrived, prescribed, done in advance, laid out your ability to be surprised actually diminishes . 我们熟悉这个循环，知道每个时间节点该在何处。从某种程度来说，这其实是在削弱惊喜降临的可能性——当一切变得刻意雕琢、按部就班、提前布局，你感受惊喜的能力反而会持续退化。

yeah if if nothing worked out the way you expected, if was all serendipity and you didn't want that, you would just be a blow anxiety. On the other hand, if everything worked out as you expect IT and wanted, you'd be so body, you might also be dead. So there's some, you know, the river of life kind of flows tween these two banks and enjoy IT. 是啊，如果事事都不如你所愿，如果一切纯属偶然且非你所想，你只会陷入焦虑的漩涡。反之，若万事皆如预期且称心如意，你可能会安逸到失去生命力。所以你看，生命之河总在这两岸之间流淌，学会享受这个过程才最重要。

You say thinking about yourself is the source of all unhappiness, but presumably you need to work on yourself and your weaknesses as well. So some degree of reflection is important. And if thinking about yourself as a source of unhappiness is the surprise that you need to pay, I need to sort reflect in wood, i'm going to have to diminish this level of happiness for a little while, and then I can use this new level. I've got my Brown belt on, and I couldn't go out into . 你说过度关注自我是痛苦的根源，但人显然也需要完善自我、克服弱点。适度自省至关重要。若将自我审视视为换取觉醒的代价——好比需要暂时降低幸福阈值来获得新境界——这就像我虽已取得棕带资格，却还不能以棕带身份行走江湖。

the world as a Brown belt. And specially ferrings to that is, if if you're thinking about your personality and your ego and the character of you and uh you're obsessing over that, that's where about a depression and happiness sort of lingers and and gets cultivated. Um so thinking about what is me this happened to me, that happened to me. 尤其当人们执着于剖析人格、自我意识和性格特质时，抑郁与幸福的种子往往就在这种思维温床中滋生。总想着"这事发生在我身上""那事针对我"的状态，正是痛苦滋长的土壤。

I have this personality, I have this issue. I deserve this. I didn't get that that you're just strengthening a little beast in there that is insatiable and that's where I think a lot of unhappiness comes from. 我有这种性格，我有这个问题。我活该这样。我没意识到你只是在喂养内心那头永不满足的小野兽——我认为很多不快乐的根源就在于此。

What's the beast? It's the eagle. But that were also used that I can hate to use the word um but it's it's a recurrent collection of thoughts that are very self obsessing, will never be satisfied and . 这头野兽是什么？是那头鹰。但我也讨厌用这个词...它其实是那些不断循环的、极度自我沉迷且永不知足的念头集合。

very concretizing as well. So the not malual not particular . 而且这些念头会变得非常具象化。不是那种...不是特定的...

flex is adding to them by thinking about the all time you're creating narratives and stories and um but that's different from solving personal problems. So if you encounter something, you learn from something you're reflecting upon the learning, then you can reflect upon IT absorbing and then just move on. But sitting there are saying, i'm Chris, i'm of all I deserve this. 反复纠结只会强化它们——当你不断编造各种叙事和故事时...但这与解决个人问题是两回事。遇到事情时，你应该从中学习，反思吸收后就继续前进。而不是坐在那里念叨"我是克里斯，我活该这样"。

This happened to me, that person wrong me. This is who I am. This shouldn't have happened. I need to go get revenge on this, or I need to fix that or change this. 这事发生在我身上，那个人冤枉了我。这就是我。这本不该发生。我得去报复，或者我得解决这个问题，改变现状。

I mean, that I think is where a lot of mental illness is, is, you know, comes from. So IT depends if you are thinking about something to solve a problem and get IT off your chest and get IT off your mind. If IT leaves your mind clearer at the end of IT, then I think he was worthwhile. If IT leaves your mind busier at the end of IT and you're probably in the direction. 我想说的是，我认为很多精神疾病就源于此。关键在于，如果你思考某件事是为了解决问题、一吐为快、放下心结，那么当思考结束时，如果你的头脑变得更清晰，那这种思考就是有价值的。但如果思考结束后你的头脑反而更混乱，那你可能正走向错误的方向。

is this AA justification for detachment, cultivated ignorance, a distraction? 这是否是对超然态度的合理化辩解，是刻意培养的漠视，还是一种逃避？

Ashman is not a goal of man, is a by product. It's just a by product of just realized, you know what matters and what doesn't uh and and just for one moment on the self thing, I think everybody craves thinking about something more than themselves. If you want to be you know happy to some extent, you have to forget about your personal problems. 超脱并非人生目标，而是副产品。它只是当你真正明白什么重要、什么不重要时产生的副产品。关于自我这件事，我认为每个人都渴望思考超越自身的事物。若想在某种程度上获得快乐，就必须暂时放下个人问题。

And what would I do that is take on other problems, bigger problems, uh and that could be a mission that could be set, that could be spirituality, that could be kids um they could be Carrying about the planet. Or I think people take that a little far, you know, then they get kind of oppressive and tyrannical and support of abstract concepts. But so these seem be taken too far, just like a religion, for example. 而我该做的是去解决其他问题，更宏大的问题——这可以成为一项被赋予的使命，可能是精神追求，可能是养育子女，也可能是关注地球生态。不过我觉得人们有时会走极端，你知道，他们会变得偏执专制，盲目支持某些抽象概念。就像宗教那样，这些理念很容易被过度推崇。

just like anything . 世间万物皆是如此。

in x anything in access, right? Um but generally, the less you think about yourself, the more you can think about a mission or about god or about a child or . 任何事物过度都会失控，对吧？但总的来说，你越少考虑自己，就越能专注于使命、信仰或孩子这类事物。

something like so vi hym h the found revolution said, I am reaching. I have no idea to what to do with my life and you replied, god, kids on mission pickety . 就像存在主义革命者说的那样：我迷茫无措，不知人生方向。而你回答：信仰、子女或使命，选一个吧。

that's right preferably all three it's very liberating um yeah thinking I think over thinking about yourself is probably it's they may not be the cause of depression but I certainly doesn't . 没错，最好是三者兼备，这种感觉非常自由。嗯，我觉得过度自我剖析或许不是抑郁的根源，但肯定无益。

help rumination. II kind of had a self induce stock syndrome from this sort of a thing because I like to think about stuff and you provide you with an endless number things to think about so you're kind of, yeah, you have this. You're the prisoner and the prison guard at the same time. 这种反刍思维反而有害。我因此陷入了某种自我强化的困境——因为我喜欢思考问题，而它提供了无穷无尽的思考素材。于是你就像...既是囚徒又是狱警。

And I had a biga share on the show. SHE was to roll this book about at therapy, sort of pushing back against therapy. Lure for kids, specific ally for kids. There was a blast radius that covered pretty everything, including kind of cbt. I'm like like we're getting parallel ly closest really evidence based stuff here. But the more that i've thought about IT and the more that i've look at the evidence, there is like basically a direct correlation between how much you think about yourself and how miserable you are. 节目里有位嘉宾激烈抨击了这本关于心理治疗的著作，认为它过度向儿童推销治疗概念。她的批判火力几乎覆盖所有疗法，包括认知行为治疗。我当时心想：我们质疑的可是循证医学里最靠谱的方法啊。但随着深入思考和研究，我发现自我关注度与痛苦程度确实存在直接关联。

Therapy is great. If IT lets you event in the solves the thing and then excessed letters, you're done, you're clear. But if you're just looping on the same . 心理治疗很棒，如果能帮你解决问题然后放手。但如果只是让你在原地打转...

thing forever is actually the yeah yeah, how are you become happy techniques developed over . 永恒的事物其实是这样的，那些让你快乐的技巧都是逐渐形成的。

time yeah, I used to have a lot of them. Now I kind of try not to have any because I think the techniques themselves are kind of a struggle. It's sort of like bidding for status implies your low status that reveals at your low status to someone who's basically trying to show off, uh, comes across the lost status the same way someone was trying to be happy sort of saying i'm i'm unhappy in creating that frame. So it's Better . 时间啊，我以前有很多这类技巧。现在反而尽量不用了，因为我觉得技巧本身就像在挣扎。这就像炫耀地位反而暴露了你的低微——当一个人拼命想展示自己时，恰恰暴露了他的匮乏。追求快乐也是如此，强调"我要快乐"反而框定了"我不快乐"的前提。所以...

just not even think in terms being in lack in order to yeah. 不如根本不要用"缺失"的思维框架来看待问题。

I don't even think in terms of happiness, unhappiness anymore. I just kind of . 我现在甚至不再用快乐或不快乐来思考了。就是自然而然地...

just do my thing again. Another question did similar to a bunch of them, do you think you could have got there had you have not done the procedural, systematic sort of step by step by step? This is what IT is. And then come out the other side. 只管继续做我的事。另一个类似的问题是，你认为如果不按部就班、循序渐进地执行流程化步骤，你能达到目标吗？这就是沉浸式翻译的精髓所在。最终总会突破瓶颈。

I don't think there are any formulas. I think it's unique to each person. It's like asking a successful person, how did you become successful? 我认为根本不存在通用公式。这完全因人而异，就像问成功人士"你是怎么成功的？"

Each one of them will give you a different story. You can follow anyone else is path, and most of them are even protecting you. Some narratives version of IT that isn't quite true. 每个人都会给你不同的答案。你可以模仿任何人的路径，但多数人甚至不会告诉你真相。那些关于沉浸式翻译的成功叙事往往经过美化。

I mean, that's something that I continually realize, especially as I get to spend more time around people that are successful. I knew hear it's very important to prioritize worklife baLance, right? That's one of the most common things that people who have obtained success say. 我越来越深刻地意识到这一点，尤其是当我有机会接触更多成功人士后。我早就听说保持工作生活平衡很重要对吧？这几乎是所有成功人士都会强调的准则。

That's not my experience. 这并非我的亲身经历。

But if you look at, you shouldn't be asking somebody who is successful what they do to continue that success. Now you should be asking them what did they do to obtain the success when they are where you were? 但如果你仔细观察，你不该向已经成功的人请教如何延续成功。相反，应该询问他们当初处于你现在的位置时，究竟做了什么才获得成功？

And the people who are really extraordinary successful didn't sit around on watching success point. They just went, did IT they? They had such an overwhelming desire to be successful at the thing that they were doing that they just went and did that thing. They didn't have time to study and learn and listen, and they just did IT. It's the overwhelmed desire that the most important and the focus that comes from that so . 那些真正取得非凡成就的人，从不会坐在原地等待成功降临。他们只是立即行动，直接去做，对吧？他们对所从事的事业怀有如此强烈的成功渴望，以至于直接付诸实践。他们没时间研究、学习和倾听，就是直接行动。正是这种压倒性的渴望最为关键，由此产生的专注力才是核心。

tweet of yours, that was people who are good at making wealth, or people are good at attaining wealth, don't need to teach anybody else how to do with yeah. 你那条推文说得对：擅长创造财富或获取财富的人，根本不需要教导别人怎么做。确实如此。

you don't need mentors, you need action that was one of them. Now the one is the the people who actually know how to make money don't need to sell your core um yeah there's lots of variations on IT but if you don't another one, if you don't lie awake at night thinking about IT, you don't want to badly . 你不需要导师，你需要的是行动，这就是其中之一。真正懂得赚钱之道的人不需要向你兜售核心要义——是的，关于它有很多变体，但如果你没有另一个特质，如果你不会在深夜辗转反侧地思考它，说明你渴望得还不够强烈。

enough yeah I think you i've heard you talk before about how um to unclosed loops. Problems that you're working on can cause you to be sleeps and this . 确实，我记得你之前谈过如何解决未闭环的问题。那些你正在攻克的难题确实会让你夜不能寐。

i'm not a good sleeper. 我的睡眠质量不太好。

Tell me about, oh. 跟我说说，哦。

I mean, my lee pates me so tell me I fail sleeping again. Brian Johnson thinks i'm going to die early. Probably right. 我是说，我的腿总在抽动害得我又失眠了。布莱恩·约翰逊说我可能会早逝。他大概没说错。

But how much you are? Can you sleep in any idea? 但你情况有多严重？能睡着哪怕一小会儿吗？

Ah, it's so random. Some nights asleep eight hours, some minutes asleep four hours. But it's bitter this random. 唉，完全没规律。有时能睡八小时，有时只能睡四分钟。但这种随机性真让人崩溃。

Are you bothered about that? Trying to optimize you go sleep coach teaching you . 你很在意这个问题吗？要不要找个睡眠教练来帮你优化作息方案。

how to I don't flog myself over things. If I want to sleep, sleep, I don't want to sleep, I don't sleep. It's not AI don't think i'm doing . 如何做到不为琐事苛责自己。想睡就睡，不想睡就不睡。这不是什么人工智能，我也不认为自己在做错事。

anything right. Don't believe good night. 任何事都无所谓对错。别相信什么"晚安"的鬼话。

bad night. Now I work out every day because I think that gives me more energy. And i've gotten into good habit with IT. 糟糕的夜晚。现在我坚持每天锻炼，因为觉得这样更有活力。而且我已经养成了良好的 IT 习惯。

Maybe we'll do the same thing with sleep. Maybe i'll develop a good habit, but i'm gonna beat my self up over IT. They'll come a point where is important to me. 或许睡眠也该如此。或许我会培养出好习惯，但绝不会为此折磨自己。总有一天这会对我变得重要。

When it's important to me, I just do IT. You know, most of you, for example, you get people with addictions right over reading or smoking or whatever. They can kind of go through all the different methods, but it's have hearted. 当某件事对我真正重要时，我就会全力以赴。你看，就像大多数人戒除阅读成瘾或烟瘾那样，他们可能尝试过各种方法，但总是半心半意。

And then one day they like, oh, shit. I've got lunch after my dad at lunch when they dropped immediately. So I think a lot of a lot of change is more about desire and understanding than IT is about a forcing yourself or try to domesticate yourself. 直到某天他们突然醒悟——比如发现父亲因肺癌去世的瞬间，烟瘾说戒就戒了。所以我认为真正的改变更多源于内心渴望和认知觉醒，而非强迫自我或试图驯服自己。

It's efficiency. I guess you know a lining. The thing that you want to do with the way that you feel . 关键在于效率。就像衣服的衬里，要让行动与真实感受保持一致。

about what IT is that you want to do? Yeah, it's not it's not getting caught up in a in a half desire or memetic desire. It's really just being aware of what IT is that you actually want at this point in time. 明白自己当下真正想要什么？对，不是被半吊子的欲望或模仿性欲望裹挟，而是清醒认知此刻内心真正的渴望。

And when you want something, then you will act on IT with maximum capability, and that's the time to act on IT. The meantime, just doing IT because other people tell you should do IT, or society tells you should do IT, or you feel slightly guilty about IT. These are, these are ha hearted efforts and have have hearted efforts don't get there. 当你真正渴望某件事时，就会全力以赴去实现它——这才是行动的时机。若只因他人劝说、社会压力或内心隐约愧疚而行动，这些三心二意的努力终将徒劳无功。

As you get older, one thing that becomes harder to ignore is your tester n levels, the impact, everything from your energy to your mood and however you recover. However, there are signs spect supplements like tonka that support tesone strength and recovery. And that is why i'm such a huge fan of more this product because they make the only NSF certified tonk cat ali, on the planet. 随着年龄增长，睾酮水平的影响愈发不容忽视，它关乎精力、情绪乃至恢复能力。但像东革阿里这类补剂能有效支持睾酮强度与体能恢复，这正是我推崇 MORE 品牌的原因——他们生产全球唯一通过 NSF 认证的东革阿里补剂。

That means it's so rigorously tested, but that even olympic athletes can use IT. And why I partner with them, because they make the most carefully tested, highest quality supplements on earth. This is a huge part of my brain, body and sleeps stack, which makes a big impact of my cognition, I strength and my recovery. 这意味着产品经过严苛检测，连奥运选手都可放心使用。我选择与其合作，正因他们打造了地球上最经得起检验的高品质补剂。这已成为我健脑强体、优化睡眠方案的核心部分，对认知能力、体能与恢复产生显著改善。

And if you're still ensure the mentors offers a thirty day money back guarantee, so you can buy IT and try IT for twenty nine days. If you don't love IT, give you your money back last ship internationally right now, get thirty five percent of your subscription. And that thirty day money back guarantee, by going to the link in the description below, are heading to live a momentous stop com slash modern wisdom.如果您仍不确定，导师提供 30 天退款保证，所以您可以购买并试用 29 天。如果不满意，最后一天可全额退款。现在国际配送已开通，订阅立享 35%优惠。点击下方描述中的链接，即可享受 30 天退款保证，或直接访问 livemomentous.com/modernwisdom。

And using the code, modern wisdom checked that LIVEMMENTOUS stock com. Such a modem ism, a modem muslim. Check out, you mentioned anxiety before. Imagine how effective if you be, if you want anxious all the time.使用优惠码 MODERNWISDOM 访问 livemomentous.com。说到现代焦虑症，想象一下如果您长期处于焦虑状态，工作效率会受多大影响。

This is one of you was an anxiety, is the emotion to share of the twenty first century, and a lots of driven people, very anxious, very paranoid, that's what's caused them to be affected, that pay so much attention, detail oriented, not letting things go to, staying up at night, thinking about IT. That's the paranoia. What have you come to learn about anxiety and dealing with that? 焦虑堪称 21 世纪的标志性情绪。许多成功人士都饱受焦虑困扰，这种偏执促使他们高度专注、注重细节、彻夜难眠反复思虑。关于应对焦虑，您有哪些心得？

So anxiety and stress are interesting. They're very related. Stress is when, if you look at an iron beam, when iron beam is under stress is because it's being bent in two different directions at the same time. So when your mind is under stress is because IT has two conflicting desires at once. 焦虑和压力是很有趣的概念。它们密切相关。压力就像一根铁梁——当铁梁承受压力时，是因为它同时被往两个相反方向弯曲。同理，当你的大脑承受压力时，是因为同时存在两个相互冲突的欲望。

So for example, you know you you want to be liked, but you want to do something selfish, and you can't reconcile IT to and so you are under stress um you want to do something for somebody else. You want to do something for yourself, right? These are exact. You you don't want to go to work, but you want to make money so you're understand, right? So you have two conflicting desires, and I think one of the ways to get through stress is to acknowledge that, oh, I actually have two conflicting desires. 举个例子：你既想受人欢迎，又想自私行事，这种矛盾无法调和就会产生压力；你想为他人付出，又想为自己考虑，对吧？这些都是典型情况。你不想上班，却又想赚钱——这种矛盾心理大家都懂。关键在于要意识到"原来我有两个相互冲突的欲望"，我认为这是化解压力的重要方法之一。

And either I need to resolve IT, I need to pick one and then be OK losing the other, or I will decide later, but at least just being aware of why your stress can help alleviate a lot of stress in an anxiety, I think, is sort of this pervasive and identifiable stress where you just kind of stressed out all the time, you're not even sure why, and you can even identify the underlying problem. And the reason for that is because you, you have so many unresolved problems, unresolved stress points that have piled up in your life that you can no longer identify what the problems are. There is a mountain of garbage in your mind and a little bit of IT poking out the top like an iceberg. 要么我需要解决它，要么我需要选择其中一个并坦然接受失去另一个，或者我可以稍后再做决定。但至少意识到压力来源本身就能缓解大量焦虑——我认为这是一种无处不在且可识别的压力状态，就是你整天莫名感到压力山大，甚至不确定原因，更无法定位根本问题。这种情况的出现，是因为你生活中堆积了太多未解决的问题和未化解的压力点，多到你已经无法辨认问题所在。你的脑海里堆积着如山般的垃圾，而压力只是像冰山一角那样微微露出表面。

And that's anxiety. But underneath there's a lot of unresolved things. And so you just need to kind of go through very carefully every time you're anxious. 这就是焦虑的本质。但在表面之下潜藏着大量未解决的事情。所以每次感到焦虑时，你都需要仔细梳理。

Like, okay, why my animals this time? I don't know why. Oh, well, let me sit here and just think about, let me let me be write down what the possible causes could be. 比如：这次我为什么焦虑？不知道原因？好吧，让我坐下来好好想想，把可能的原因都列出来。

Let me meditate on IT. Let me journal. Let me talk to a therapy. Me talk to my friends. Let me just can see, like when does that stress go away, if you can can identify and unravel and resolve these issues that I think that helps get rid of anxiety. 让我静心思考。让我写下感受。让我寻求专业疏导。向挚友倾诉心声。只要我能看清，当压力何时消散——若能识别、梳理并解决这些问题，我想这有助于消除焦虑。

A lot of the anxieties piled up because we move through life too quickly, not observing our own reactions to things, we don't resolve them. So this goes counter to, I was saying earlier about not reflecting too much on things, but you reflect on the problems to observe them and solve them. You don't reflect on them to . 许多焦虑不断堆积，只因我们活得太匆忙，未曾觉察自己对事物的真实反应，更未妥善处理。这与我早前所说"不要过度思虑"看似矛盾，但反思问题是为观察并解决它们，而非...

feel Better about. Well. 自我安慰。嗯。

if if you're doing IT to just feel Better about yourself, that could be strengthening your personality in your ego and could be creating a more fragile personality. You know, one, one big anxiety result for me is the room living on death. I think that's a good one. 若你这么做只为自我感觉良好，反而可能强化自我人格，塑造出更脆弱的心性。对我而言，一个重大的焦虑根源是对死亡的持续思考。我认为这是个值得深思的命题。

You're onna die. It's all going to zero. You cannot take anything with you. And I know this is trit, and I know we don't spend enough time thinking about the big questions we can give up on them. We were very, very Young. 你终将死去。一切都会归零。你无法带走任何东西。我知道这是老生常谈，也知道我们不愿花时间思考这些终极问题——我们可以轻易放弃它们。那时我们都太年轻了。

You know, a little child might ask the big questions, like, why are we here? Was the making a life? What is all about you is sena laws, our god. 孩童常会问些大问题，比如：我们为何存在？生命的意义是什么？宇宙的本质为何？这些触及终极法则的疑问。

But then as adults, we're taught not to think about these things. We were given up on them. But I think the big questions are a big questions for good reasons. And uh, if you can keep the idea in front of you at all times that you're going to die and that everything goes literally to zero was IT distress about yeah . 但成年后，我们被教导不要思考这些。我们早已放弃追寻。然而我认为这些根本问题之所以重要，自有其道理。若能时刻谨记死亡终至、万物归零的真相，或许就能...

for beta was life is very short. How should people deal with its brief ness? 毕竟生命短暂。人们该如何面对这转瞬即逝的本质？

Enjoy IT make the best you know it's even brief er than that each moment just disappears. It's gone. There's only a present moment and it's gone instantly. So if you're not if you're not there for IT, if you're stressed out or you're anxious or you're thinking about something else, you missed IT. So you're any moment when you're not in that moment, you are dead. 享受当下，因为你知道它转瞬即逝——每个当下都会消失。它消逝了。存在的只有当下这一刻，而它也会立即消逝。所以如果你没有活在当下，如果你感到压力、焦虑或想着其他事情，你就错过了它。任何没有全然投入当下的时刻，你都如同行尸走肉。

To that moment you might as well be dead because your mind is off doing something else, or you living in some, imagine reality that is just a very poor substitute for the actual reality. So one of my recent realization was, what is wasted time? What is what is a waste of time? So I don't like to wasted, but what is wasted time? And everything is wasting time in a sense, because nothing matters in the ultimate, but in each moment the thing matters. 在那个时刻，你与死亡无异，因为你的思绪游离到别处，或是活在自己想象的现实中——那不过是真实世界拙劣的替代品。我最近的一个顿悟是：什么是浪费时间？我不想虚度光阴，但究竟什么才算浪费时间？从某种意义上说，一切都是在浪费时间，因为最终没有任何事情真正重要——但在每个当下，每件事又都无比重要。

In each moment the the only thing that matters actually that what's happening in funny you is literally has all the meaning in the world. And so what matters is just being present for the thing. So if you're doing something that you want to do and you're fully therefore IT, there's not waste the time if you don't want to do IT and your mind is run away from IT and you're reacting against IT and you're wishing you were somewhere else and you're thinking about some other thing or you're anticipating some future thing or regretting some past thing or being fearful of something, then that's wasted time. 在每一个当下，真正重要的只有此刻发生在你身上的事——它们蕴含着世间全部的意义。关键在于全然投入眼前之事。若你正做着自己想做的事并全身心沉浸其中，这便不算虚度光阴；反之，若心不在焉地抗拒当下，幻想别处风景，或沉湎于对未来的焦虑、对过去的悔恨，那才是真正的浪费时间。

That's time that's being wasted when you're not actually present for the reality in front of you. So my definition, wasted time. Yes, I do want some material things in life, and I know there are things that have more value than others within this life, but this life is very short and bounded. So the true waste, the time of the time that you are not present for, when you are not there for you, when you are not doing the thing you want to do to the best of the cable, is such that you're immersed. If you're not immersed in this moment, then you're wasting your time. 当你未能真实地活在眼前现实时，光阴便悄然流逝。依我之见，这就是虚度。我确实渴望某些物质享受，也明白此生万物价值有高低，但生命短暂有限。真正的浪费，是当你缺席自己的人生现场，未能以最佳状态投入心之所向。唯有全然沉浸的时刻才不算辜负——若你未能沉浸在此刻，便是在挥霍生命。

People get worried about dying and no longer being here, but they don't realize that so much of their life is spent not being here. In any case, that's right. 人们总担心死亡意味着不复存在，却未意识到自己大半生都处于"不在场"的状态。无论如何，事实就是如此。

But anything people creve being here for IT. And when you're here for IT, you're actually not thinking about yourself. You are more immersed in the thing that the moment the task at hand. 但人们渴望为某些事物而存在。当你真正投入其中时，其实已忘却自我——你完全沉浸在手头的事务中，与当下融为一体。

we don't want piece of mind. We want piece for our mind. That's right. 我们寻求的并非心灵碎片，而是让心灵获得完整。正是如此。

Yeah you know, peace. The mind is what killed each to ally if you let IT and there's more to you than the mind how so. Well, I am very, if I don't want to dissemble the body, so speaking, right, please go. Yeah at the end the day, like everything arises within your consciousness. 是的，你明白的——平静。心智若任其发展反而会自我消耗，而你的本质远不止于思维。怎么说呢？请允许我直言：归根结底，万物皆在你的意识中显现。

right? 对吗？

There were also to consciousness relative static in the sense of the the same for the moment you were born, to the moment you die. And everything that you experiencing your body, from your mind, to the world, to to everything, is within that consciousness. a. 从你出生到死亡的那一刻，意识在某种意义上也是相对静止的。你所经历的一切——从你的身体、思想到整个世界乃至万物——都存在于那个意识之中。

And that thing, that base layer of being in this is what the buddh will tell you, is the real thing. Everything that comes and goes in the middle, including your mind, including your bodies, unreal. And trying to find stability in those transient things, is your castle, is your building on sand that's going to crumble. 佛教会告诉你，这个存在的底层基础才是真实。中间来来去去的一切——包括你的思想、你的身体——都是虚幻。试图在这些转瞬即逝的事物中寻找稳定，就像在沙地上建造城堡，终将崩塌。

Life is going to play out the way it's going to play out. There will be some good and some bad. Most of IT is actually just up to your interpretation. 生命会按照它既定的轨迹展开，有喜有悲。而其中大部分其实只取决于你如何解读。

You're born, you have a set of sensory experiences, and then you die. How you choose to interpret those experiences is up to you. Different people interpret them in different ways. 你出生了，经历一系列感官体验，然后死去。如何解读这些体验取决于你自己。不同的人会以不同的方式解读它们。

Yeah I see all line about two people walking on the street that are having the exact same experience. One is experiences. One is happy, one is sad, right? It's a narrative in their heads is how they choose to interpret um so I think when I said that there was a long time ago, I was talking more about having positive interpretations and negative interpretation. But these days, I think is Better than not to have any . 是啊，我看到过那句经典的话：两个人走在街上经历完全相同的事情。一个人快乐，一个人悲伤，对吧？关键在于他们头脑中构建的叙事——他们选择如何解读这些经历。很久以前我说这个观点时，更多是在讨论积极解读和消极解读的区别。但现在我觉得，与其执着于某种解读，不如全然接纳事物的本真状态。

interpretations and to just allow things . 你终究会形成自己的解读。你无法真正停止解读，也不该强行抑制这种本能——毕竟就连"不执着于解读"本身也是一种解读态度，顺其自然就好。

to be you're still gonna have interpretations. You can stop IT and or should you try but even that having an interpretation is just the thing you could leave alone yeah. （注：最后两段原文存在断句问题，中文翻译时进行了语义整合和语气连贯性处理，在保持原意基础上优化了表达流畅度）

I really want to try just digging a little more to the best way to remind people that they should value that time. Just how brief IT is that? The time that you spend ruminating, being distracted, fears of the past regrets. 我真的很想再深入探讨一下，如何才能最好地提醒人们珍惜这段时光。那些你沉溺于反刍思维、分心走神、对过往遗憾充满恐惧的时光，究竟有多么短暂？

I don't anna, tell him I had to live life. I would just say that to the extent that you want to improve your quality life, the a the easiest and based way to do that is to observe your own mind and your own thoughts and and be a little not not as a critical but um be observing of yourself more objectively and then you kind of realize your own loops and patterns that takes time. It's it's not overnight. 我不想告诉他该怎么生活。我只想说，若想提升生活质量，最简单根本的方法就是观察自己的心智和念头，不要过于苛责，而是更客观地审视自己。这样你就能逐渐觉察到自己的思维循环和行为模式——这需要时间积累，绝非一蹴而就。

It's not a antanas ous go is not a one time event . 放下执念并非朝夕之功。

yeah and there's letting go is not necessarily even the right answer like yes, if you're trying to be in enlighten being and you know you will live like a god and everything be perfect, be a budda sure you can let go. But I think in practice actually quite hard to do. 是啊，而且"放下"本身未必就是正确答案。当然，如果你追求开悟成佛、超然物外的完美境界，那确实可以放下一切。但我觉得在现实生活中，真正做到这点其实相当困难。

Um I think I would say that it's uh you GTA find a lot of fulfillment out of life by just doing what you want to do and genuinely expLoring what IT is that you want rather than doing what other people expect you do or society expects you to do, or what you might just think that should be done by default. You know, I think most older, successful people will tell you that their life was best when they lived IT unapologetically on their own terms. Fish . 我觉得可以说，在 GTA 中找到人生满足感的秘诀就是做自己真正想做的事，真诚探索内心渴望，而不是活成他人或社会期待的样子，也不是机械地完成那些"理所当然"该做的事。要知道，多数年长的成功人士都会告诉你，当他们毫无歉意地按照自己的方式生活时，人生才最精彩。钓鱼。

selfish clip . 自私片段。

to fish bad. 钓鱼不好。

I had this inside. I question, I guess, how much do you think that we should trust the voice in our heads? Because half of wisdom suggest to rely on your sort of bottom up intuition, and then half of IT has to be sort of top down rational as possible. How do you navigate detention between head and gut in this way? 我内心一直有个疑问：我们究竟该多大程度相信脑海里的声音？因为一半的智慧告诉我们要依靠自下而上的直觉，另一半又强调要尽可能保持自上而下的理性。在这种头脑与直觉的拉锯战中，你如何找到平衡？

I think the gut is what decides the head is, kind of what rationalized afterwards. The gut is the ultimate sion maker, if he doesn't. And what is the gut? The gut is refined judgment. Its taste. 我认为是直觉决定了头脑的判断，某种程度上是事后合理化。直觉才是最终的决策者，如果头脑无法决断的话。那么什么是直觉？直觉是经过提炼的判断力，是一种品味。

aggregate to . 汇聚而成。

aggregated and IT could be agreed through evolution, uh, and send your genes in your DNA or I could be aggregated through your experiences and what you thought through the mind is good at solving new problems and uh new problems in the external world that have defined edges, you know, beginnings and ends and and objectives. What the mind is actually really bad at is making hard decisions. 这些直觉可能通过进化过程凝聚而成，嗯，通过你的基因和 DNA 传递；也可能通过你的经历积累形成。头脑擅长解决那些边界清晰的新问题——你知道的，有明确起点、终点和目标的外部世界难题。但头脑真正不擅长的，是做艰难的决定。

So when you have a hard decision to make, I find its Better to, yes, you ruminate on IT. You think through all the present coins, but then you sleep on IT. You wait a couple of days, you wait until the gut answer appears with conviction and IT feels right. And when you're Younger, IT takes longer because you just don't have as much experience. And when you're older um you can happen much faster. 所以当你面临艰难抉择时，我发现最好这样做：当然，你要反复思量，权衡所有利弊，但之后不妨搁置几天。等待直觉带着确信感浮现，那时你自然会感觉对了。年轻时这个过程更长，因为经验不足。而年长后，嗯，可能转瞬间就有答案。

which is why you have time to yeah all people . 这就是为什么你有时间去了解所有人。

are more setting their way as a consequence, right they know what they want. They know what they don't want. And so IT takes time to develop your got instinct and judgment but once you've developed them, don't trust anything else because you can't go against your god, it'll bite you in the end. 他们更倾向于设定自己的道路，因为他们清楚自己想要什么，也明白自己不想要什么。因此，培养直觉和判断力需要时间，但一旦你掌握了这些，就不要相信其他任何东西，因为你不能违背自己的内心，否则最终会自食其果。

Usually in relationships that failed, you can look back and say, oh, actually, I know it's gna fail because of this reason, but I kind of went ahead anyway because I wanted IT to be this way, right? I wanted this person to be a different way they are. I wanted to get a different thing out of IT. 通常在失败的关系中，你可以回顾并说，哦，其实我知道它会因为这个原因失败，但我还是继续了，因为我希望它是这样的，对吧？我希望这个人变成他们本不是的样子。我想从中得到不同的东西。

Then I thought I was going, then I knew I was going to get, but I just wanted that. So sometimes desire will override your judgment and then trap you. Ah I wish for thinking IT traps you into a into a pathway that chose choose up time. 然后我以为我会得到，虽然我知道实际会怎样，但我就是想要那样。所以有时候欲望会凌驾于你的判断之上，然后困住你。啊，我希望思考能引导你，但它却把你困在了一条需要花费时间选择的道路上。

What's that uh, inside of yours? Um we think we can change ourselves, but we can we think we can change all the people, but we can't . 你内心深处那个声音是什么？我们总以为自己能改变，但事实上我们做不到；我们总以为能改变他人，可那同样不可能。

exactly things to add to that. You can change other people, you can change your reaction to them, you can change yourself. But other people only change through trauma or their own insight on their own schedule, and never in a way that you like. 关于这点要补充的是：你无法改变别人，但能改变自己对他们的反应，能改变自己。他人唯有经历重大变故或自我顿悟才会改变，而且永远不以你期待的方式。

Yeah, a land button says that people do sometimes to change, but rally in relationships and never when they told to absolutely . 是啊，就像那句老话说的——人们确实偶尔会改变，但往往是在感情受挫时，而绝非在被说教的时候。

yeah the fastest way to kind of alienate somebody please to tell them to change in fact ah the deal carnegy school of public speaking, you know the way that Operates is uh, they get you up there and they realized that the number one problem with public speaking is, uh that uh, people are very self conscious and so, uh, people who are practicing in the deal, county police being, I don't know, I never went to what I heard the second hands. 没错，要求别人改变实际上是最快疏远关系的方式。卡内基演讲学院的教学方式就印证了这点：他们发现公众演讲的最大障碍，就是人们过度自我关注。那些在卡内基课程练习的人...（虽然我没亲身经历，但据二手消息是这样）

I could be wrong, but I like story where they get up and they start speaking. And the people, the audience, are only a lot to compliment them, genuine compliments, not fake compliments, on things that they did well. But you're not like to criticize them on things that they did poorly. 可能我的观点有误，但我很喜欢这样的场景：人们站起来发言时，观众们会真诚地赞美他们做得好的地方，而不是虚假奉承。但不会对他们做得不好的地方横加指责。

And eventually they kind of get through IT and they developed self confidence the same way. Uh, there's like the Michelle Thomas school of language learning. And on that one, what they do is you you listen to a teacher talking to a student, they're not teaching you. You're not expected to a remember, remember as anything users listen to a students stumbling over the language, it's a Better way to learn because yourself don't feel flow. You're being tested graded current. 最终他们会逐渐克服障碍，以同样的方式建立起自信。就像米歇尔·托马斯语言教学法那样——你只需聆听老师与学生的对话，他们并非直接教你，也不要求你死记硬背。听着学生结结巴巴地说外语，反而是更有效的学习方式，因为你自己不会感到压力，不会被当场测试打分。

not in your own head. 这种学习过程完全不会让你产生心理负担。

You're you even be laughing at the student and you might be agreeing with a teacher or vice versa, sympathising with the student. But because you are a pass sive observer and more objective about IT, you aren't threat and fearful and you can learn Better. And coming back to the original point of you can change people if you do want to change someone's behavior. 你甚至可能会笑话那个学生，也可能赞同老师的观点，或者反过来同情那个学生。但正因为你是置身事外的观察者，能更客观看待这个过程，所以不会感到威胁和恐惧，从而学得更好。回到最初的观点：如果你想改变某个人的行为，确实是有办法实现的。

II think the only effective way to do IT is to compliment them when they do something you want not to positive yeah exactly not to insult them will be negative or critical when they do something you don't want. And we can help IT. It's obviously in our nature to criticize. 我认为唯一有效的方式是，当他们做了你希望的事时就给予称赞——对，不是盲目表扬——而当他们做了你不希望的事时，不要用负面或批评的态度。我们可以帮助 IT 部门。批评确实是人类的天性。

And I do IT as well, but I just reminds me that like when somebody does something praise worthey don't forget to praise them like definitely go out with and it'll be genuine IT has to be genuinely can be a fake thing. Uh this is not you know one of those uh, just drop in compliments type thing eventually that people will see through that they want authenticity. But just don't forget to praise people when they do something praise worthy and you will get more that behavior. 我也从事 IT 工作，但这提醒我：当某人做了值得称赞的事时，千万别忘记表扬他们——一定要真诚地表达，绝不能虚假。这不是那种随口奉承的把戏，人们最终会看穿这种把戏，他们需要的是真诚。只要记住在人们做出值得称赞的行为时给予表扬，你就会看到更多这样的行为。

There was AA really be famous thread on redit about five questions to ask yourself if you are uncertain about your relationship. One of the questions was, are you truly in love with the arena, or just that potential or the idea of them and that the know they shows such great promise? Look at their ability for for, for changing growth. They they they're on the right path. The partner . Reddit 上曾有个非常著名的帖子，讨论关于感情不确定时应问自己的五个问题。其中一个问题是：你真正爱的是这个人本身，还是他们的潜力或你想象中的形象？看看他们改变和成长的能力——他们是否走在正确的道路上。伴侣...

matching thing is so hard, you know, when people come in to asked me like, oh, I be with this person like well, if you are asking me, just clearly no, right? Because you wouldn't have to ask if you were with the right person or when you ask someone like why they are uh, in a relationship with somebody to start reading out his her resume. It's also a bad side. 找到对的人实在太难了，你知道吗？当有人来问我"我该和这个人在一起吗"，如果他们需要问出口，答案显然是否定的，对吧？因为当你遇到对的人时根本不需要问这种问题。或者当人们解释为什么和某人谈恋爱时，开始罗列对方的履历——这也是个糟糕的信号。

What do you mean? Oh. 什么意思？哦。

like, oh, we have so much in common. We like to golf together, not a basis for relationship or oh, you know she's a ballerina or you know he went to harvard or what have you this is the resume item. So that's not the person. 比如"我们有很多共同点，喜欢一起打高尔夫"——这不能成为恋爱基础；或者说"她是芭蕾舞演员"、"他哈佛毕业"之类的履历条件。这些都不是爱上一个人的理由。

actually. I just love being with this person. I just trust them. 真正的爱情应该是"我就是喜欢和这个人在一起，我就是信任 ta"。

I know II enjoy being around them. I, I, I, I love how capable he is. I love how kind he is. 我知道我特别喜欢和他们相处。我、我、我、我爱他的能干，爱他的善良。

You know, I love her spirit. I love his energy. Uh, the more the more materially and concretely definable the reasons. Are you together? The worst they are. 你知道吗，我爱她的精气神。我爱他的活力。呃，那些越是具体可衡量的理由，往往越是糟糕的结合依据。

the ineffable is actually where the the sort of true love lies because . 不可言说的部分恰恰是真爱所在之处。

real love is a form of unity. It's a form of connection, is connecting spirits oh, youtube, my consciousness meets your consciousness. It's the underlined drive. 真爱是一种合一的境界。它是灵魂的共鸣——啊，油管上，我的意识遇见你的意识。这才是最根本的驱动力。

Uh in love, in art, in uh science, in uh mister ism is the desire for unity, is a desire for connection. As you know, bar has famously wrote, in every human there is a sense of something infinite has been lost. You know, there's a god shape hole in you, you trying to fail. 在爱情中，在艺术中，在科学中，在神秘主义中，都存在着对统一的渴望，对连接的渴求。正如巴特所言，每个人内心都感知到某种无限之物的失落。你明白的，你心中有个上帝形状的空洞，你不断尝试填补。

And so we're always trying to find that connection. Love is trying to find IT in one other person and saying, okay, you may, I am the ml, whatever, know what your part elections are now we connect. Now we form MA whole, a uh uh connected whole. Or in mister ism. 因此我们始终在追寻那种连接。爱情就是试图在另一个人身上找到它，然后说：好吧，也许我就是你缺失的那部分，现在让我们相连，让我们形成一个完整的、相互连接的统一体。神秘主义也是如此。

It's like it's all about OK sit down, meditate and you'll feel the whole in science it's like, oh uh no, Adams bouncing is mechanics, but that generates heat so thermal dynamics in motion or canadian s or one combine theory that's a whole electricity and manages m or one thing that's that's whole create a sense of all uh, in art it's like I feel an emotion. I create a piece of art around IT and then you see that painting or you see the sit in chapel or read s the poem and you feel that emotion so again, it's it's creating unity, it's creating connection. Uh, and I think everybody craves that. And so when you really love somebody is because you you feel a sense of holness by being around them啊。And that sense of holness probably doesn't have anything to do with what school they went to, you know or what career . 这就像在说：好的，坐下来冥想，你就能感受到整体性。在科学领域，就像——哦不，亚当斯的弹跳属于力学范畴，但那会产生热量，所以是热力学在运动，或者加拿大 S，或者某个统一理论，那构成了完整的电磁学体系。而在艺术中，就像我感受到某种情绪，围绕它创作一件艺术品，然后你看到那幅画，或坐在教堂里，或读到那首诗时，就能体会到同样的情绪。所以这又回到了创造统一性，建立联结。我觉得每个人都渴望这种联结。当你真正爱一个人时，是因为和他们在一起让你感受到完整。而这种完整感很可能与他们上过什么学校或从事什么职业毫无关系。

there just sort of tying that into the life is short. Stop fucking about. If you're face with a difficult choice, you cannot decide. 把这些和"人生苦短"联系起来看。别再瞎折腾了。当你面临艰难抉择却无法决断时...

The answer is no. And the reason is modern societies full of options. Knowing this rationally sounds sounds great, but having the courage to commit to IT in reality, I think, is a different task. And cutting your loss is quickly in the big three relationships, jobs and locations is hard. What would you say to someone who may cerebrally be able . 答案是否定的。原因在于现代社会充满了各种选择。理性上明白这点听起来很棒，但现实中要有勇气真正付诸行动，我认为是另一回事。在三大领域——感情、工作和居住地——迅速止损并非易事。对于那些在理智上可能认同...

to agree with you and say, he said, he said what I really, he says, what I really notice about you is your ability to walk away from situations that are just not good enough for you or not good enough for you. yes. And I think that is a characteristic that I have. ...你的人，你会怎么说？他说，他说我真正注意到的是你能够果断离开那些对你不够好或配不上你的处境。是的。我认为这正是我具备的特质。

Well, I will not accept second best outcomes in my life and ultimately you will end up wherever is acceptable to you. You will get out of life whatever is acceptable to you um and there are certain things to me that are very, very important where I will not settle for second best. But then there are a lot of other things I just don't care about. 我不会接受生活中次优的结果——毕竟人最终只会停留在自己能够接受的境地。你会从生活中得到你愿意接受的一切。对我而言，有些事至关重要，我绝不将就；但其他许多事情，我根本不在乎。

Because if I spend all my time caring about those things, I don't have the energy for the few things that matter. And uh so in decision making up a few horst CS for myself, other people can use their own, but minor, if you can't decide, the answer is no. If you are often an opportunity, if you have a new thing that you are saying yes or no to, that is a change from where you starting the answers by default, always know. Secondly, uh, if you have two decisions, if you have a or b, and both seem like very equal, take the path that's more painful in a shorter, the one that's gona be painful immediately, because your brain is always trying to avoid pain. So any pain that is imminent, IT is going to treat as much larger than IT actually is. 因为如果我把所有时间都花在关心那些琐事上，就没有精力去处理真正重要的少数事情。所以在为自己制定决策原则时——其他人可以有自己的标准——但关键点是：如果你犹豫不决，答案就是拒绝。当你频繁面临选择机会时，如果遇到需要说"是"或"否"的新事物，请记住默认答案始终是否定，除非出现改变现状的理由。其次，当面临两个看似势均力敌的选项 A 或 B 时，选择短期内更痛苦的那个，选择即刻就会带来痛苦的选项。因为大脑总是试图逃避痛苦，所以任何迫在眉睫的痛苦，它都会将其放大到远超实际的程度。

This is kind of like a decision make equivalent of talib surgeon. 这就像是决策制定领域的"塔勒布式外科手术"法则。

Uh, tell a surgeon where the you want, the surgeon doesn't look as good because he's more likely to be good surgeon. Yeah, similar in that appearances are deceiving because you're avoiding conflict, are avoiding pain. So take the path is a more painful in the short term, because your brain screen is illusion. The short term pain is greater in the long term pain, because long term can you ourself . 呃，告诉外科医生你想要什么位置，外科医生看起来没那么好反而更可能是位好医生。对，类似的情况是外表会骗人，因为你正在逃避冲突、逃避痛苦。所以选择那条短期内更痛苦的路，因为你的大脑在制造幻觉。短期痛苦其实比长期痛苦更强烈，毕竟长期来看你才能做真实的自己。

all kinds . 各种

of m actly. So take the more short term painted one. And then finally, the last one, which I would credit couple gup to with, uh, is that you want to check and take the choice that will leave you more economists in the long term. 确实如此。因此要选择短期更煎熬的那个选项。最后一点——这点我要归功于几位导师——就是你要选择那个长期来看能让你更"经济学家"的选项。

Economists, I means like more peace, more mental piece in the long term. So whatever clears your mind more and will have you having less self talk in the future, if you can model that out, that is probably the Better right to go. And that I would focus decision making down on the three things that really matter, because I really else is downstream of these these three decision, especially these are early life decisions. 这里说的"经济学家"，指的是长期能带来更多内心平静。只要能让你思路更清晰、未来减少内心纠结的选择——如果你能预见到这种效果——那很可能就是更明智的方向。我会把决策重点浓缩在这三件真正重要的事情上，因为其他一切都源于这三个决定，特别是在人生早期阶段做出的这些选择。

Later in life are different things to optimize for. But early in life, you're trying to figure out who you're with, what you're doing and where you live. And I think in all three, those you want to think you want to think pretty hard about IT. 人生后期需要优化的重点各不相同。但在年轻时，你正试图厘清与谁同行、从事何事、栖身何处。我认为这三者都值得你深入思考。

And people do some of these unconsciously, you know who you're with. Its very often cycle. We in a relationship with stumble along is felt, okay, been enough time, so we ve got married, right? Not great reasons. Maybe a terrible reasons either means people who over think these things sometimes don't get the right answer. 人们往往不自觉地做出这些选择，比如伴侣的选择。这常常陷入循环。我们稀里糊涂进入一段感情，觉得相处够久了就结婚，对吧？这并非明智的理由。或许糟糕的理由意味着，那些过度纠结这些问题的人有时反而得不到正确答案。

But maybe here, if you are the kind of person that's not going to settle for second best, you iterate you iterate on a close time frame so they don't run up the clock and then you decide um on what you do. You try a whole bunch of different things until you find the one that feels like play to you, looks like work to others. Can't lose at IT um get some leverage, try to find some practical application of IT and go into that and then where you live, uh, where you live is really important. 但如果你是不愿将就的人，不妨在有限时间内快速试错——别让时钟耗尽你的选择权。尝试各种可能性，直到找到对你像玩耍、对他人像工作的那件事。在这方面稳赚不赔——获得某些优势，寻找实际应用场景并投身其中。至于居住地，它确实至关重要。

I don't think people spend enough time on that one. I think people pick cities randomly based on where I went to school or where my family happened to be or where my friend was or I visited one weekend. I really liked you, really wanted think IT true because where you live really strains and defines your opportunities. 我认为人们在这方面投入的思考远远不够。大家选择城市往往很随意——要么因为母校所在地，要么因为家人恰巧在那儿，或者朋友在那边，又或是某个周末去玩过一趟。但我必须强调，居住地真的会极大限制和定义你的人生机遇。

Um IT uh, it's going to determine your friends circle, it's going to determine your dating pool. It's going determine your job opportunities, is going to determine the food and air and water quality that you receive. Um it's going to determine your proximately to your family, which might be important as you get older and have kids. 嗯，这个选择将决定你的社交圈层、择偶范围、职业机会，甚至影响你日常接触的饮食、空气和水质。随着年岁增长、生儿育女，居住地离原生家庭的远近也会变得越来越重要。

So very, very, very important decision whether you know what your life, how much you stay inside or outside, how long you'll live based on that. And I think people choose that one probably more poorly than they. They put a lot of this thought into that one than the other two in some ways. 所以这绝对是个至关重要的决定——它影响着你的生活方式、户外活动频率，甚至预期寿命。但奇怪的是，人们做这个选择时往往比另外两个决定更草率，尽管从某些方面来说它更需要深思熟虑。

yeah. But also the, you're so right. How many people fall backward into a relationship and before they know IT living together, we were kids because . 确实。你说得太对了。有多少人稀里糊涂就陷入一段关系，还没反应过来就已经同居了？我们当年就是这样懵懂无知啊。

then that's half of you and half of running around. You're never going to separate yourself from that. So once you have a child with somebody, then the most important thing in the world to use half that other person. 那么这就意味着你的一半将与另一半共同奔波。你永远无法将自己从中抽离。所以一旦你与某人有了孩子，那么对你而言，这世上最重要的事就是接纳对方的一半。

whether you like them or not. Jeffrey Miller had a tweet a long time ago that I always think about. He said, every parenting book in the world could be replaced with one book on behavioral genetics. I am a big believer in genetics. 无论你是否喜欢那个人。杰弗里·米勒很久前发过一条推文，我至今仍时常想起。他说，世界上所有育儿书籍都可以被一本关于行为遗传学的书取代。我本人就是遗传学的坚定信奉者。

Yes, I do think a lot of behavioral downstream of genetics and I think we underplay that we like to overplay nurture and underplay nature for AI underplay nature for societal reasons but nature is a big deal um the temperament of the person you marry . 是的，我确实认为许多行为都是遗传基因的延伸表现。我认为我们刻意淡化了先天因素——出于社会原因，我们总喜欢夸大后天培养的作用，而弱化先天禀赋对人工智能的影响。但先天因素至关重要，比如你结婚对象的性格特质，

is probably going to reflected in your child default well. 很可能会在你的孩子身上得到自然而然的体现。

the secret to a happy relationship is too happy people, right? So I would say if you want to be happy, then, uh, be with a happy person. Don't think you be with someone who's unhappy and then make them happy down the road if you're okay with them being unhappy. But there are other things you like about them that's fine. 幸福关系的秘诀在于两个快乐的人，对吧？所以我想说，如果你想获得幸福，那就和一个快乐的人在一起。别指望能和一个不快乐的人在一起后，将来再让他们变得快乐——除非你能接受他们一直不快乐的状态。当然，如果对方有其他吸引你的特质，那另当别论。

But this goes back to happiness with other things. 不过这又回到了关于其他方面的幸福感。

And actually we talk a little bit about how people do connect successfully, you know, on spirit and those things, but that me a little too abstract. If you want to go get a little more practical, IT could be based on values. And values are set of things you won't compromise on. 其实我们讨论过人们如何成功建立精神层面的联结，但那些可能太抽象了。如果想更实际些，可以基于价值观来考量。价值观就是你绝不妥协的那些原则。

Values are the tough decisions of, oh, my parent got sick. Do they moving with us, or do we put them in in a nursing home? Uh, you know, the people, do we give the children money or do we not? 价值观体现在艰难抉择中：比如父母生病了，是接来同住还是送养老院？要不要给孩子经济资助？这些才是考验。

Uh, you know, do we um do we move across the country to be closer to our family, or do we stay put where we are? Uh, you know, do we argue about politics to be care, or do we not? right? The values are way more important then checklist items. Uh, and H, I think if people were to align much more on their values, they would have much more successful relationships. 嗯。 呃，我们该不该为了离家人更近而搬去另一个城市，还是留在原地？该不该为了表达关心而争论政治话题？这些价值观层面的抉择远比待办清单上的事项重要得多。嗯，我认为如果伴侣能在价值观上更契合，他们的关系就会更稳固。

the emotional pain of a fearing change. I have distinct to job, the location partner i'm going to enter or not enter this thing for the most party of leaving. I think we have this sort of love. 对改变的恐惧带来的情感痛苦。我清楚地记得那些关键抉择——是否要换工作、是否要搬迁、是否要开始或结束一段关系——大部分都源于这种恐惧。我想我们都有这种类似的爱与怕交织的心理。

this version, just painful. Separating yourself in front your friends is embarrassin. 这种状态实在太痛苦了。在朋友面前暴露自己的脆弱真是难堪。

And would you advise people to get past themselves with the loss aversion, the year of change? 你会建议人们如何克服损失厌恶心理，跨越对改变的恐惧年份？

Good is the hardest thing in the world. Uh, starting over. It's back to the zero one thing. 善行是世间最难之事。呃，重新开始。一切归零重头来过。

It's, uh it's the mountain climbing thing. You're not gona find your pat to the top of the mountain in the first go around. Sometimes you go up there, you get stuck and you come back down, and the difference win. All the successful people in the ones not is the ones who are successful wanted so badly. They want to go back and start over again, again, whether in their career or in their relationships or anything else. 这就像登山。没人能第一次就找到直达山顶的路径。有时你攀至半途，受困折返，而胜败分野就在于此。成功者与失败者的区别在于——成功者怀揣着近乎偏执的渴望。他们总想重振旗鼓，不论事业、感情还是其他领域。

The most seriously you take yourself, the unhappier you're going to be. You learn how to take yourself less seriously. 你越是端着架子，就越难获得快乐。要学会举重若轻。

What fame doesn't help on that one, because that is one of the traps of fame. People always talking about you. They have a certain view of you and you start believing that and then you take yourself seriously and then that limits your own actions. 名气对此毫无助益，这正是成名的陷阱之一。人们对你评头论足，给你贴上标签，你逐渐信以为真，开始端着架子，最终画地为牢。

You can't look like a fool anymore. Um you can do new things anymore you know tomorrow and announce some a break answer right? That's gonna met with a lot of score . 你不能再表现得像个傻瓜了。要知道，明天你完全可以尝试新事物，宣布些突破性的答案对吧？那将会赢得满堂喝彩。

and ridiculous back to. 然后荒唐地回到原点。

yeah the truth is if I want to be breakdancing, I would be great dancing but uh, you know that i'm starting a new company zero to one again from scratch. Let's do IT you know one more time uh, and not just going in raising a big VC find or retiring or what have you. But that's because I want to build the product. 说实话，如果我想跳霹雳舞，我一定能跳得很棒。但你看，我正在从零开始重新创业，再次从无到有。让我们再干一次吧，不是去拉什么风投或者退休养老之类的。这么做纯粹是因为我想打造这个产品。

I want to see IT exist. So I think that you constantly just have to force yourself you to remind yourself, um look, deep down, you're still the same, Chris or when you were nine years old, deep down you're still a kid um you know you still curious about the world. You still have a lot of the same product, elections and desires. 我渴望看到它问世。所以我觉得你必须不断强迫自己记住：克里斯啊，骨子里你和九岁时没什么不同，内心深处你依然是个充满好奇的孩子，对世界保持着同样的热忱与渴望。

And once you're got a nice thing on IT, but one of the nice things when you have kids as you realized how much closer they are to you in personality and knowledge and know how like I look at my son who's a you know is eight and ah I just noticed like wow he probably has sixty to eighty percent of my knowledge and development with done is a lot more freedom and he is a lot more spontaneous way. He's smarter and there's not a big gap. You're left to close this kids gonna. 当你在沉浸式翻译中有所收获时，会发现养育孩子的美妙之处——他们与你在性格、知识和能力上的相似度令人惊叹。看着我八岁的儿子，我意识到他可能已经继承了我 60%到 80%的认知发展，但他拥有更多自由，行事更加率性。他比我更聪明，我们之间不存在巨大鸿沟。你终将见证孩子们...

You know, done very soon. I caught up to me. And so to the extent that I think I know Better, or that i'm somewhere, or that i'm someone, is, is just an illusion, is, is just a belief. 很快就能赶上我的水平。因此，那种自以为更优越、或身处某种地位、或成为某种人物的感觉，不过是幻觉，只是执念罢了。

What's the lining aged between that and taking yourself too seriously? 这与过度自我重视之间有何界限？

I shouldn't take myself too serious. Ly, because there isn't nothing here to take that seriously. And if I take myself too seriously, then i'm going to get trapped. I'm gonna get, i'm going to circumscribe myself again into a limited set of behaviors and outcomes that keep me from being free, keep me from being spontaneous, keep me from being happy. So IT just goes back to that, you know, don't think about yourself too much. 我不该把自己看得太重，因为根本没有值得如此郑重其事的东西。若我过分严肃地对待自己，就会陷入困境——再次将自己禁锢在有限的行为模式和结果中，失去自由、失去率真、失去快乐。这又回到了原点：别太把自己当回事。

There's a special type of pain in realizing that the advice that you need to hear is right now is something that almost always you learned a long time ago and that you know, you basically sort of the same person you were as you are nine. You know, a lot of the time people ask questions like what advice you wish you would give me a self, ten years ago, people ask themselves that question. Almost invariably the advice that you would give yourself ten years ago is still the advice you need to hear today. 意识到此刻最需要听取的建议，往往是你多年前就已明白的道理，这真是一种特别的痛苦。本质上，你还是那个九岁时的自己。人们常问：如果回到十年前，你会给过去的自己什么建议？而讽刺的是，十年前该听的忠告，往往正是今日仍需的箴言。

absolutely. That's why I did that exercise of thinking back, you know, ten years, twenty years, thirty years ago. What advice, what I give myself for me is just be less emotional. Don't take don't take everything so seriously, do the same things, but do them without all the emotional turbulence. And so that's the advice on giving myself going forward. 确实如此。正因如此我才做了这个回溯练习——回想十年前、二十年前、三十年前的自己。要给我的唯一建议就是：别那么情绪化。别把每件事都看得太重，继续做同样的事，但抛开所有情感波澜。这就是我要送给未来自己的忠告。

Yeah, yeah. It's funny how we need that distance to be able to be a little bit more objective, to have a little bit more perspective. And it's almost a little bit of a trick, right? Because typically when you do that, you say, what would you tell a friend that was going through this, right? And then you try to turn the advice to the friend around onto yourself. But you always think i'm not the friend. You know, you ten years ago, there's enough distance in that you I actually am still that person. 是啊，确实如此。保持距离能让我们更客观、更有洞察力，这挺有意思的。这几乎像个小把戏对吧？通常你会想：如果朋友遇到这种情况，我会怎么劝他？然后试着把给朋友的建议用在自己身上。但总有个声音说"我又不是那个朋友"。而十年前的你——那段距离刚刚好，因为本质上你依然是同一个人。

There's just a single line between. And related, this story is, I think understanding is way more important than discipline. Now jawa would have a fit. 界限其实非常微妙。说到这个，我认为理解远比纪律重要得多——这话要是让爪哇人听见，怕是要跳脚了。

But you know, on physical things, discipline is important. If I want to build a good body, I got to work out on a regular basis. But on mental things, I think understanding is way more important. Once you see the truth of something you cannot undo IT. All of us have a had experiences where we've seen a behavior in a person and then I just changes what we think about that person. We no longer want to be friends with them or we deeply respect them if I was you know really good behavior that maybe was observed unintentionally um so when we when we really do see something clearly IT changes our behavior immediately and that is far more efficient than trying to . 但在物质层面，自律确实重要。若想塑造好身材，就必须坚持锻炼。而在精神层面，我认为领悟力更为关键。一旦看清事物的本质，这种认知便无法逆转。我们都有过这样的体验：偶然目睹某个人的行为后，对其看法瞬间改变——或是断绝来往，或是肃然起敬，全因那个无意间显露的举动。当真正洞悉某事时，我们的行为会立即转变，这种自发改变远比刻意约束来得高效。

change your behavior . 改变你的行为。

through reputation in example um if you were, let's say that you know you have a friend and that person turns out to be a thigh, you see that person steals something, you're done with them uh if you are, uh you know the smoking lung cancer example is a good one, right? 举个例子，假设你有个朋友，结果那人是个惯偷，你亲眼看见他偷东西，那你们的关系就彻底完了。再比如吸烟致癌的例子也很典型，对吧？

Someone close to you or anytime someone close to you dies or you even hear about someone dying, you hear about someone like, what's the first thing you do the first thing, assuming that you wearing obviously different, but if you weren't that close to them, but you know, you hear about someone in your extended such are dying, you immediate start trying different, distinguish yourself from them like all, how was this person? You know, did they have where the smoker, you know, did they have an issue? Do I have that issue? right? 当你亲近的人离世，或是听闻任何人的死讯时，即便关系不算亲密——比如远亲或熟人——你的第一反应是什么？当然着装会不同（此处语义模糊），但重点在于，你会立刻开始寻找差异点："这人是什么情况？有吸烟史吗？有健康问题吗？我有没有类似问题？"对吧？

You media start comparing and what what what you're doing there is your sort of just trying to see if there is an overlap here. But if you see the truth in something, if if you like, oh my god, this person was the same age as me, and they died. And that started to happen in my age where I started to hear extend circle. People just reminds you, time is really short. There's a truth that . 你开始下意识比较，本质上是在寻找自己与逝者的不同点。但若发现共同点——比如"天啊，这人跟我同龄就走了"，尤其当你这个年龄层开始陆续有人离世时，这种认知会猛烈提醒你：生命何其短暂。这里面藏着某种真相...

there's . 某种...

a truth that there that you can actually just can see a for example, I think you into body building or something back . 赤裸的真相。就像你当年痴迷健美时（此处回忆突然中断），突然看清了...（句子不完整）

when I like very lifting stuff yeah right. But there . 当我特别喜欢举重的时候，没错。但那里...

probably was a point where you were a being really ago in the gym and you injured yourself many times. 可能有个阶段你在健身房练得太狠，多次把自己弄伤。

right? 对吧？

And one of those was a deep understanding of uncle beyond this point. But there was a truth there. So again, when you when you see these things in such a way that you can't unc them, that changes your behavior instantly. And I would argue that that introspections to find those truth is actually very useful. 其中一次受伤让我深刻认识到，超过某个临界点就会出问题。但其中蕴含着真理。所以当你以无法忽视的方式看清这些事实时，你的行为会立即改变。我认为这种寻找真相的自我反思其实非常有用。

Is that a justification for more experimental exploration experience in life? So of trying to find serendipity, because all of these experiences are going to teach you a in escape of lesson. 这是否意味着人生需要更多实验性的探索体验？去主动寻找机缘巧合，因为所有这些经历都将教会你无法逃避的课程。

You're going to do what you're going to do come on your level of exploration, I think is sort of up to you but life is always throwing truth back at you ah it's about whether you choose to see IT, whether you choose acknowledge IT uh, even if it's painful. Truth is often painful, right? If IT wasn't, we'd all be seeing truth all the time. Reality is always reflecting truth. 你会按照自己的探索程度行事，我认为这取决于你自己。但生活总会把真相抛回给你——关键在于你是否选择看见它，是否选择承认它，即使真相往往令人痛苦。不是吗？如果真相不痛，我们早就时刻直面真相了。现实永远在映照真理。

That's all IT. 仅此而已。

Why exactly? Uh you know all the all the philosophy that out there, for example, uh, it's almost trait like most people, they look at philosopher, like until they discovered for themselves because wisdom is the set of things that that cannot be transmitted. If they could be transmitted if we'd read the same five philosopher book and would all be done, we'd all be wise. 究竟为何？你看世上所有哲学思想，大多数人就像对待哲学家一样，直到他们亲自领悟为止——因为智慧是无法直接传递的。如果真能传递，我们只需读相同的五本哲学书就都能获得智慧了。

You have to learn IT for yourself. IT has to be rediscovered for yourself in your own context. You have to have specific experience. 你必须亲自学习信息技术。信息技术需要在你的具体情境中被重新发现。你必须拥有切身体验。

Is that then allow you to generalize and see the truth in those things in such a way that you're not going to and see them, but each person is going to see them in a different way? I can tell you that socky story, and it's not onna resonate until there's something that other people desire that you realize you yourself don't want. And the moment that happens, then you'll see the truth in the general statement. 这是否能让你归纳总结，从而以某种方式看清那些事物的真相，虽然你不会直接看到它们，但每个人都会以不同的方式理解？我可以告诉你那个老套的故事，但除非别人渴望的东西让你意识到自己并不想要，否则它不会引起共鸣。当那一刻来临，你就会明白那个普遍陈述中的真理。

I wanna just read you a two minute essay that I wrote AA couple of weeks ago called unteach able lessons. I've been thinking about the special category of lesson one would you cannot discover without experiencing? At first hand, there is a certain subset of advice that for some reason, we all refuse to learn through instruction. 我想给你读一篇两分钟短文，这是我几周前写的，题为《无法传授的课程》。我一直在思考那些不亲身经历就无法领悟的特殊课程。有某种建议，出于某种原因，我们所有人都拒绝通过说教来学习。

These are unteach able lessons, no matter how arduous are costly or repeating lily is going to be for us to find out ourselves. We preferred to disregard the mountains of warnings from old's songs, literature, historical catastrophes, public scandals, and instead think some version of, yeah, that might be true for them, but not for me. We decide to learn the hard lessons, the hard way, over and over again. 这些都是无法传授的教训，无论过程多么艰难、代价多么高昂或需要多少次重复，我们都必须亲自领悟。我们宁愿无视古老歌谣、文学作品、历史灾难和公共丑闻中堆积如山的警示，反而固执地认为"那些对别人或许适用，但与我无关"。我们选择以最艰难的方式，一遍又一遍地重学这些深刻的教训。

Unfortunately, they all seem to be the big things, too, to never knew insights about how to put up level shelves or charming to introduced yourself at the cocktail party. Instead, we spend most of our lives learning, first hand, the most important lessons that the previous generations already warned us about, things like money won't make you happy. Fame one to fix yourself worth you don't love that pretty girl, she's just hot and difficult to get nothing as important as you think IT is when you're thinking about IT, you will regret working too much. 可悲的是，这些往往都是人生重大课题——从不知道如何安装水平置物架，到在鸡尾酒会上优雅地自我介绍这类小事反而无师自通。我们耗费大半生亲身验证着前人早已告诫的真理：金钱买不到快乐，名气填补不了自我价值；你迷恋的并非那个漂亮姑娘本身，只是被她的难以征服所吸引；你焦虑的事情远没有想象中重要；过度工作终将让你追悔莫及。

Worrying is not improving your performance. All your fears are a waste of time. You should see your parents more. 忧虑从不能提升表现，所有恐惧都是时间浪费，而你应该更常回家看看父母。

You'll be fine after the break up and be grateful that you did IT. It's perfectly okay to cut toxic people out of your life. And even reading this less back, i'm rolling my eyes that how fucking tried IT is. These are all basic bitch obvious insights that everybody has heard before. 分手后你会好起来的，并且会庆幸自己做了这个决定。把有毒的人清除出你的生活完全没问题。甚至读到这些陈词滥调时，我都忍不住翻白眼——这些全是老生常谈的基本道理，每个人早就听腻了。

But if they are so basic, why does everyone so reliably fall pray to them throughout our lives? And if they are so obvious, why do people who have recently become famous or wealthy or last of parent are gone through a breakup start to proclaim these facts with the renewed grandier ceremony of someone who's just gone through religious revelation? It's also a very contentious list of points to say on the internet. 但如果这些道理如此基础，为什么人们终其一生都屡屡中招？如果它们如此显而易见，为什么那些刚成名暴富、失去至亲或经历分手的人，总会像经历宗教顿悟般郑重其事地宣扬这些道理？即便在网络上，这些观点也总能引发激烈争论。

If you interview a billionaire says that all of his money didn't make him happy, or a movie star who said that her film felt like a prison, the internet will tear them apart for being ungrateful, out of touch. So not only do we refuse to learn these lessons, we even refuse to hear the message from those warning us about them. And even more than that, I think for every one of these, if I consider a bit deeper, I can recall the time, including right now, well, I convince ed myself that I am the exception to the rule, that my particular mental makeup, or life situation or historical wounds, dreams for the future, render me immune to these lessons being applicable. 如果你采访一位亿万富翁，他说自己所有的财富都没能带来幸福；或是采访一位电影明星，她声称拍戏感觉像坐牢——网络舆论会把他们撕得粉碎，指责他们不知感恩、脱离现实。所以我们不仅拒绝吸取这些教训，甚至拒绝倾听这些警示者的声音。更甚者，每当我深入思考这类案例时，包括此时此刻，我总能想起自己曾如何说服自己是个例外：我那独特的精神构造/生活境遇/历史创伤/未来憧憬，让我对这些普遍教训具有免疫力。

No, no, no. My in a landscape would be solved by skirting around the most well known wisdom of the ages. No, no, no. I can thread this needle properly, watch me done through the minefield, and avoid all of the trip wise that everyone else kicks. And then you kick one and you share a knowing luck, the kind that can only occur between two people who have been hurt in the exact same way. And a voice in the back of your mind will say, I told you so that is a good, I say. 不不不。我的人生困境肯定能靠绕过那些老生常谈的智慧来解决。不不不。我能精准把握分寸，看我完美穿越雷区，避开所有别人都会踢到的绊索。直到某天你踢中其中一根，与另一个伤痕累累的同类交换心照不宣的苦笑。这时心底会响起那个声音："早告诉过你了"。而我会说，这声提醒来得正是时候。

I think one of the reasons why these lessons are unteach able as because, uh, they're too broad. They have to be applied in context. A number of the ones that you let out contradict each other, like spend more time with your parents and you, I don't work so hard, but you know, the same time you do want to be successful, right? I think I think a lot of these lessons come from down on high from, as you said, like the famous movie star or the billionaire ying oh, you don't need me to be happy. It's like, well, give IT up pitch right? 我认为这些道理难以传授的原因之一在于它们太过宽泛，必须结合具体情境来运用。你提到的许多建议本身就相互矛盾，比如"多陪陪父母"和"别太拼命工作"，但与此同时你又渴望获得成功，对吧？我觉得很多这类人生箴言都来自高高在上的群体，就像你说的，比如电影明星或亿万富翁说什么"没有我你也能快乐"——这不就像在说"干脆放弃追求算了"，对吧？

Um so in reality, I think many of these contracts each other and it's if you went to school and use a study philosophy four years, he would not even know how to live life because you would know which philosophical doctoring to apply circumstance uh you have to actually live life, go through all of the issues to figure out what that is that you want. What's the context in which some of these things apply and some of them don't um yes, you want to visit your parents more often, but you don't live with your parents and you don't want to necessarily see them every day or every weekend depending on the parents you might like along with one of them. So I think IT is highly contextual. Um that said, II would argue that once you figured out yourself, you can kind of carve these variations on these maxims that apply to you and uh then you'll have a specific experience that helps you remember IT and actually execute on IT and you can also phrase IT in a way where's not tried anymore so like my yeah so so a lot of my maxims in those to are carved in a way that they're modernized. They're saying something true, which might be tried if I didn't say in a new way or an interesting way that is more relevant to me today. 实际上，我认为这些准则彼此交织。如果你在学校研习四年哲学，依然会不知如何生活——因为你不知道该在何种情境下运用哪种哲学理论。你必须真正去经历人生，处理各种问题，才能明白自己想要什么。某些准则只在特定情境下适用，比如你希望多探望父母，但又不愿与他们同住，或未必想每周都见面——这取决于你和父母的关系。因此我认为这些准则具有高度情境依赖性。 不过我想说的是，当你看清自我后，就能根据自身情况调整这些准则。这样形成的个人化经验，既能帮助你牢记准则，也能切实执行。你还可以用更符合时代的方式表述它们——就像我现在的许多准则，都是以现代化方式重新诠释的。 他们说的确实有道理，但如果我不以当下更相关的新颖或有趣方式表达，这些道理可能就难以被真正尝试。

There is AA nobel prize winner who said something to the effect of. Everything worth saying may have been said before, but given that nobody was listening, IT must be said again. 有位诺贝尔奖得主曾说过类似的话：所有值得说的可能都已被说过，但既然没人真正倾听，就必须再说一遍。

Yeah, he has been said again, has to be reconstructed. As for the modern age, things do change technology than cultural changes. 是的，必须被重述，需要重新构建。至于现代社会，技术变革确实比文化变迁更为显著。

People change on that. I've heard you say, um you talk about the difference between seeming wise and being wise that um you tried to appear a smart as a kid by sort of studio wrote memorization mascara is insight and wisdom certain ly feel that know a lot of the show for me I think has been wasn't still as a redemption arc from this a decade of my life I completely suppressed any intellectual curiosity and like OK will be professional party boy for ten years stand on the front door of a nigh club and give up VIP responds and have access to all of the pretty girls . 人们在这方面有所改变。我听你说过，嗯，你谈到显得聪明与真正聪明的区别——你小时候试图通过死记硬背来显得聪明，而洞察力和智慧则完全不同。对我来说，这个节目某种程度上像是我人生的救赎篇章，在那十年里我完全压抑了任何求知欲，甘愿当个职业派对男孩，站在夜店门口负责 VIP 接待，周旋于各种漂亮女孩之间。

or know the cool parties . 或是知道那些酷炫派对在哪。

or whatever IT might be. 或是任何这类事情。

They worked okay for . 它们勉强还算管用。

a what luck IT was a good way to spend my twenties, but come back above, put your head above water, two degrees, one of which was a masters and then they, like, just shut down any of that learn. I mean, did that why I was a uni, why I was a uni, was running the events? So he's actually a decade and a half, and I think there was a big redemption arc within this, the show. And II constantly have to kind of wipe the slime of me of this sense that I need to prove myself. And so much of IT this White really resonates with me when you're memorising things that indicates you don't understand them or that sort of wrote memorization and reggina masking is wisdom because people use fluency as a proxy for truthful ness and insight that use the complexity of your language in your communication. 能在二十多岁时这样度过算是幸运，但终要浮出水面——拿下两个学位，其中一个是硕士，然后他们就像突然掐断了所有学习机会。我是说，难道这就是我在大学、我主办各种活动的原因？实际上这持续了十五年，我认为剧中展现了一段重要的救赎历程。而我必须不断摆脱那种需要证明自己的粘稠感。当你死记硬背时，这些怀特的话让我深有共鸣——那恰恰说明你并未真正理解，这种机械记忆和华丽辞藻的堆砌被误认为智慧，因为人们总把表达流利当作真知灼见的代名词，用你沟通中语言的复杂程度来衡量内涵。

Yes, a lot of out there. I think it's it's the mark of a charleton to explain a simple thing in a complex way. And so when you see people using very complicated language to explain simple things, they are either trying to impress you in office, kid, or they don't understand themselves. 确实，这种现象很常见。我认为用复杂的方式解释简单事物，恰恰是江湖骗子的标志。所以当你看到有人用非常复杂的语言来解释简单概念时，要么是想在办公室里唬住你，伙计，要么就是他们自己也没搞明白。

INA lure in that, though, know, this was one of the things I had to do when I went to therapy. Kind of interesting and i've talked about this before um I needed to turn off podcast, Chris, when I stepped in to therapy because most of the time that I spend one on one in a deep conversation that's undistracted throughout the week, i'd trained myself over when I started doing at seven hundred episodes now nine hundred and whatever and II knew what I could do to say to this therapy some you know to just sort fear off a little and create some nice story. Put a ball on IT pushed across the table and watch your eyes light up a little bit like a little grain or a self applying joke. Like you're not here, you your performing, you're doing this, you doing the Chris Wilson s something with . 不过我也被这种倾向吸引过，要知道，这是我接受心理治疗时必须克服的问题。这事挺有意思的，我之前也聊过——克里斯，当我开始治疗时不得不关掉播客，因为每周进行深度一对一谈话时，我需要保持绝对专注。从制作第 700 期节目到现在 900 多期，我早已训练出一套应对机制：知道该怎么对治疗师说些漂亮话，稍微缓解焦虑，编些动听的故事。就像在桌上推个球过去，看着对方眼睛亮起来，抛出些准备好的俏皮话。你人在这里，心却在表演，施展那些克里斯·威尔逊的招牌把戏。

the sort of jahn . 这种约翰式的...

at my own version. 我自己的版本。

Tell me OK. So you have podcast. Is I dca but precise? So very often i'll, uh, think of something. 告诉我好吧。你有个播客。虽然我表达得不太准确但很直接？所以我经常会，呃，想到些什么。

I'll have some what I think is an insight. Yeah, I wanna tweet or write IT down. But in my mind i'm talking about on a podcast that's kind of how my mind registers that. 我会产生一些自认为的见解。对，我想发推或写下来。但在脑海里我是在播客上谈论这些，这大概就是我的思维记录方式。

And for a while I thought this was a bad thing, and I tried to eradicate podcast naval. And then I just do this how IT comes out. So I might as well just be OK with IT. Now do you know the reason i'm on this podcast? You know, i've been done a proper formal interviews, strait up top, whatever, ten, twenty podcast along time. 有段时间我觉得这样不好，试图改掉这种播客式碎碎念。后来就顺其自然了。干脆接受这种方式算了。知道为什么我来参加这个播客吗？正经的深度访谈我也做过不少，直切主题那种，做过十档二十档播客呢。

Rogan, maybe, probably. 罗根那档可能算吧。

Miss rogan, yeah. When out of the top, right? 罗根女士，对吧？从巅峰跌落的时候？

That was the fury. But still the top. 那确实令人愤怒。但依然处于顶峰。

yeah, yeah. And I i've done some stuff. Tim, tim fares, good friend, but been more coal hosting. I haven't been a guest, and then I did wanted to. 是啊是啊。我也做过一些节目。蒂姆·法瑞斯是我的好友，但我更多是担任主持工作。我还没当过嘉宾，后来确实想尝试。

Random things were just stumbled into a thing, right? You know, there was a reason, but IT wasn't like this. And I wish that to you for this one, right? 机缘巧合就撞上了这档节目，对吧？你知道的，事出有因，但原本并非如此。我希望这次你能如愿以偿，明白吗？

I have lots of people used to me for broadcast. I do not answer that. I reach out to you. And the reason is a really funny one is because when I am playing podcast in the all in my head for some reason in you on the other side, and I don't know why I really, really don't know why. It's not like I ve seen the many of your park as I have seen some snipper here and there, but for some reason you were the guy in the podcast, in podcast of all. And so as II, I, I wonder if this will close that . 有许多人习惯收听我的播客节目。对此我从不回应，唯独主动联系了你。原因其实很滑稽——当我在脑海中构思播客内容时，不知为何总会浮现出另一端的你。我真的完全不明白为何会这样，毕竟我只看过你零星几个视频片段，远谈不上熟悉。但莫名地，在所有可能的访谈对象中，你就是那个出现在我脑海里的声音。我在想，这次对话或许能解开这个谜团。

loop or further in tranship. I wonder if you've made IT wait worse now and you're well, first off, I was a dream and now it's reality plus a dream and well. 这种循环或者说更深层的转译过程。不知你是否让这种等待更加煎熬——原本你只是梦境中的幻影，如今却成了现实与梦境的叠加体。

now I don't get away from him yeah they're enough people that I turned down where I said and just might do podcast. I feel bad about that. I ve got to go back and do those podcast, but I am are my look and I nothing to talk about so I don't know . 现在我已无法回避这个事实。拒绝过太多主动邀约的访谈对象后，我确实感到愧疚。那些答应过却未完成的节目，我迟早要补上。但眼下我毫无谈资，这种空白状态让我不知所措。

what i'm going to I appreciate you'd set on rogan and this was something, you know, to kind of pay back to you. I had a five headed mount rushmore of guests before I started this show. And IT was Jordan Peterson, sam Harris, a land to bottom from the school of life, you and rogan. And that was my, a hydra of amount rush mall and I knew I think someone that asked you at some point maybe he was a tweet or something after rogan or maybe even said IT on rogan where you said, I don't like to say the same thing twice. 我本想通过罗根的节目来表达对你的感激之情，这算是一种回馈。在开播前，我心中有个五位一体的嘉宾梦之队——乔丹·彼得森、萨姆·哈里斯、"人生学校"的阿兰·德波顿，还有你和罗根。这就是我的拉什莫尔山五头蛇阵容。我记得后来有人在推特或罗根节目里问过你，你当时说"我不喜欢重复讲同样的内容"。

at least not in the same way I don't like equals yeah yes. 至少不愿用同样的方式重复。我不喜欢机械重复，确实如此。

And I really, really respected that. You know, that was twenty nineteen he said he was eight and nine years ago was long. 这句话让我深感敬佩。要知道那是 2019 年说的，而他说那是八九年前的事，时间真够久的。

I have a terrible memory yeah ah the twenty nine and code yes. 我记性特别差。啊对，2019 年那会儿...没错。

And I really appreciated that because there is something the content game you can continue to sort of, i'm sure, have said many things today that the audience already had. 我真心感激这一点，因为在内容创作这场游戏中——虽然我今天可能已经说了很多观众早已熟知的观点。

But caring enough about having novel insights or at least having a new perspective on similar insights to how well you know in the space of six years since you're on jaw, a lot of these that i'm coming out actually the first thing I said you today, like i'm not convinced that actually fully agree with that thing that used to say, which is cool, right? That you yeah showing the position that you put in the ground previously is not a tether. It's not you being held to IT. 但真正重要的是，你要足够用心去发掘新颖的见解，或者至少对相似的见解提供全新视角。想想看，自从你加入 Jaw 这六年间，其实我今天说的很多观点——包括开场那句"我并不完全认同自己曾经的主张"——恰恰证明了成长的可贵，对吧？这表示你当年立下的 flag 不是枷锁，更不是束缚你的锁链。

And I think the reason why I wanted to be on this is because for some reason I have the impression that you engage in conversations in all like conversations. I don't like interviews. This is why was doing my last start of air chat, which is all about conversations. 而我想参与这个节目的原因在于，你总是以对话者的姿态展开交流——这正是我讨厌传统访谈却创办空中茶话会的原因，因为真正的对话永远最动人。

And conversations to me are more genuine. They're more authentic. There's a given take, there's a back. And for there's a genuine curiosity is not to say the other podcasts ers don't do IT, they absolutely do do IT. But for some reason in my mind, I had you as a guy that I would actually a conversation with. And sure enough, if you just read me your essay, which I don't think anybody really too right that implies is a given take as a genuine curiosity and I think that's useful because then uh, certain an explicit knowledge that I had will be surfaced for myself. I think that's helpful. 对我来说，对话更真实纯粹。它有来有往，充满真诚的好奇——当然不是说其他播客做不到这点，他们绝对能做到。但不知为何，我潜意识里把你当作能真正对话的对象。果然如此，就像你刚才朗读的那篇随笔（我觉得没人会真的这么写），这种互动本身就体现了真诚的好奇心。我认为这很有价值，因为这样能让我显露出某些原本隐性的认知，这很有帮助。

What you're seeing, you know going to break the fourth wall a bit. You're seeing very much of some of the gateway drug insides that you had that you just don't get to choose. I'm aware that you kind of have an anti guru sentiment in you like a very strong like . 说句打破次元壁的话，你现在看到的正是那种身不由己的"入门毒品"效应。我注意到你骨子里有种强烈的反权威倾向，就像在说...

don't listen to me. 别听我的。

I don't know what me do not about to me, do not do any of the other things to me. But if you see residence in another person, and I think this is what we're all trying to find, you people can complain about the mountains of content creation that happens, maybe rightly so. But if you're able to find someone and you see in them a little bit of you, maybe not even much of you, but like all that bit of them, they're a steam or the way they look at relationships. 我不知道自己究竟不了解自己的哪些方面，也不该对我做其他任何事。但如果你在他人身上看到了栖居的可能——我想这正是我们所有人都在追寻的——你们当然可以抱怨当下内容创作的泛滥，这种抱怨或许不无道理。可当你遇见某个人，在他们身上窥见一丝你的影子，或许那甚至不算是你的特质，而是他们全部的闪光点，比如他们散发的热忱，或是他们看待感情的方式。

So what they want to do, the kind of life they want to, the level of piece of mind that they want to have, whatever might be if you find in somebody else a little bit of that, it's kind of like what you saying before you can you can no longer be unconvinced of that. And IT a step, syn becomes a part of you. And yeah, you maybe seeing reflected back to use some you know this sort of percuss ted very meandering insight from, however, along ago that something happened maybe you know five years time will be like, you know that thing that you said about the lessons the and then I don't know it's caught that 3 thesis right is the sort of blending of the reason I spend . 他们所追求的生活方式，渴望拥有的心灵平静，无论是什么——只要你在别人身上发现些许这样的痕迹，就会像你之前说的那样，你再也没法对此视而不见。这种共鸣会逐渐成为你的一部分。是啊，或许某天你会突然领悟，这种迂回曲折的顿悟可能来自五年前某个时刻，就像当时你说的那些人生课题，然后...我也说不清，但正是这种理性与感性的交融，构成了我投入其中的缘由。

a lot of time in same to tisco is because it's a gravitation attraction for the smartest people in the world。And despite all of the many problems the city had, because mismanaged beyond belief, IT does just seem to pull in the Young, smart, creative people uh not just the ones they're building technology but they're expLoring every fact life and they are weird and sometimes they are repulsive and is bizarre but you talk to these people and you just see a very intelligent person coming at life in a completely different way um putting you to the common attacks of human DNA which are accountable and giving you a weird perspective that can twist your mind around. 在蒂斯科花费大量时间，是因为这座城市对全球最聪明的人有着磁石般的吸引力。尽管这里存在无数因管理不善导致的难以置信的问题，但它似乎总能吸引年轻、聪明、富有创造力的人群——不仅是那些构建技术的开发者，还有探索生活各个维度的实践者。他们或许古怪，有时甚至令人不适，带着荒诞的特质。但当你与这些人交谈时，会看到一个智慧灵魂以全然不同的方式解读生命，既遵循人类 DNA 中那些可解释的共同特质，又赋予你足以颠覆思维的奇特视角。

And to do that you always have to be learning you you have you can be a guru mentality if I with somebody and they're listening to every word I say and hanging on IT that's not interesting for me. I'm not to learn anything. Um I want people who are intelligent who will say something back that is a little different. I may not agree with that, but it's gonna ve in mark is going to leave in an impression and it's going to leave an impression to the extent that both that they are correct and that I choose to listen and i'll choose to listen if I don't view myself as higher status are smarter than them. The flip side of that is i'm not really impressed by high status people like . 要做到这一点，你必须始终保持学习的心态。我不喜欢那种"大师信徒"式的相处模式——当有人全盘接受我的每句话、对我的观点奉若圭臬时，这种关系对我而言毫无吸引力，因为从中我学不到任何东西。我渴望与聪慧者为伍，他们能提出独到见解，即便我未必认同，但这些观点会留下深刻印记。这种思想交锋要产生效果，需要两个前提：一是对方确有真知灼见，二是我愿意俯身倾听。而只有当我不自视甚高，不认为自己比对方更优越时，才能真正做到倾听。反过来说，那些所谓的社会名流也从来不会让我感到钦佩。

I don't because pretty . 我确实不会。

much in fact, uh, most of my friends, we've gone on to become very uh famous successful. The more famous sucessful they've been, the less I spend time with them partially because they gets surrounded by an army of sicker fans. This is hard to break through, uh, because I don't want anything from them. I don't like that. I don't like these situations in which transactional relationships are imply a gift. 事实上，我大多数朋友后来都成了声名显赫的成功人士。但他们越是功成名就，我与他们的交往就越少——部分原因是他们身边总簇拥着阿谀奉承之徒。这种关系壁垒很难打破，毕竟我对他们无所求。我厌恶这种充斥着利益交换的社交生态，仿佛每段关系都明码标价。

though, to people who are of that because the hie that they climb up the hierarchy, the fewer and fewer people don't want anything from them. So in that way, yeah but we have even Better friend. 不过，对于那些身处高位的人来说，随着他们在等级体系中攀升，真心无所求的朋友就越来越少。从这个角度看，确实如此，但我们反而能拥有更纯粹的友谊。

right? But they they get surrounded by people who do want things from them and are so good at pretending they don't that is just not work my time to try and break out from that group. Um so he does get lonely at the top sort to speak but this also by choice because you you can be problem . 对吧？但这些人身边总会围绕着别有所图之辈，而这些人又太擅长伪装成无所求的样子，与其费心甄别，不如干脆远离这个圈子。所以他所谓的"高处不胜寒"，某种程度上也是自我选择的结果——毕竟你完全可以...

yeah you can be your own best friend too. 没错，你也可以成为自己最好的朋友。

I am my own best friend actually so I really do enjoy spending time . 事实上我就是自己最好的朋友，我真的很享受独处的时光。

with myself yeah the smartest people are interested in appearing smart and don't care what you think is yeah. 与自己相处时，最聪明的人只在乎如何显得聪明，根本不在意你的看法。

I mean, AA lot of life is not giving a shit, you know, but a lot of the best things in life come out of that. 我是说，生活中很多事都不值得计较，但生命中许多最美好的事物恰恰源于这种洒脱。

Does this mean sort of talking about that route? Memorization master ating, his wisdom and insight thing, which I think IT perhaps almost certainly podcast like this, will have contributed to, you know, you hero, an landa bottom, whose a painter with words very simple, very sort of unpretentious. But if you're intellection curious, you see, you only see the production of his thoughts. You don't necessarily see the work that's gone into the thoughts behind. So you confuse the presentation of them for the insight. 这是否意味着要探讨那条路径？记忆大师的智慧与洞见，我认为像这样的播客几乎肯定对此有所贡献。你看，像你崇拜的兰达·波顿这样的文字画家，风格极其简约质朴。但如果你充满求知欲，你看到的只是他思想的成品，未必能察觉背后投入的思考过程。于是你把思想的呈现方式误认作洞见本身。

Does that make sense? Of course? Yeah a lot a lot of my stuff is more polished like one of the funny things yeah one of funny things that uh right before this, uh, podcast was, I thought maybe even go back and read my old tweet just I remember what I said like an article that at, well then I read that this performance I would just be members zing . 明白我的意思吗？当然明白。其实我的很多作品都更精雕细琢——有趣的是，在这次播客录制前，我甚至翻出旧推文重读，就像复习文章那样。结果发现那些即兴表演般的文字，现在读来竟像是刻意背诵的。

my whole stuck to perform I that's an extra special level of exactly how the eve to send that memorizing . 我整个人都沉浸其中，那是一种超乎寻常的境界，仿佛要将那个难忘的夜晚铭刻于心。

me to be more me bingo up some expectation or some uh, famous personality that now have . 让我做更真实的自己，打破某些期待或那些，呃，如今已成名的标签。

to become some jacket to bate. 不过是想披件外套当诱饵罢了。

right? So of course, pretty quickly I saw through that. No, it's nonsense and I also constrains my time and . 对吧？所以很快我就看穿了。不，那都是胡扯，而且还束缚了我的时间和...

it's just work I think your meditation practice that worked at that mindfulness . 我想是你的正念冥想练习起了作用。

gap to be like. 差距就在于此。

huh yeah there's that . 嗯，确实是这样。

thing again in exactly that. So it's not about changing your thoughts. It's not about fixing your thoughts, not about changing yourself is just about being observing of yourself so that you can then IT automatically change. 再次完全印证了这一点。所以重点不在于改变你的想法，不在于修正你的想法，也不在于改变自己，而只是观察自己，这样你就能自然而然地发生改变。

Whatever change needs to happen will happen is you try to change yourself is very circular. Um the mind trying to change the mind, the mind doesn't let rustling with itself. II don't think IT gets anywhere. 试图改变自己就像在原地打转。头脑想要改变头脑，这种自我对抗不会带来任何进展。我不认为这能取得什么成效。

You've spent a lot of time either creating wealth, thinking about how to create wealth. What if you learned are the best places to spend wealth. 你花了大量时间创造财富，思考如何创造财富。但你是否想过，哪里才是运用财富的最佳去处？

to spend wealth? 运用财富？

Yeah, yeah. How you spend this time creating this wealth, accumulating? How does what are the best ways fee to put IT back out? 没错。你耗费时间创造和积累的这些财富，该如何以最有意义的方式回馈出去？

I actually think elan had this one figured out, which is he poured his own money back into his own businesses to go do bigger and Better things for humanity. Um so what I would like to you know, you could give IT a non profits, but love on profits a griffe or its people who didn't earn IT try to spend IT or they don't have tight feedback loops on having a good effect. So one of things I want to do as an aside as I want to create a little school for Young physicists. 我其实认为埃隆已经想明白了这一点——他把个人财富重新投入自己的企业，为人类创造更宏大更美好的事业。你看，你可以把钱捐给非营利机构，但那些机构往往由不擅长赚钱的人管理，他们要么挥霍资金，要么缺乏有效反馈机制来确保资金产生积极影响。所以我想顺便做的一件事，就是创办一所面向青年物理学家的微型学院。

but that's that's Young physicists . 没错，就是培养青年物理学家。

yeah that that's my non property thing. But um and i've been and i've actually um under written a media and some physical stuff. I like talk about IT. I don't talk about my whatever so called full anthropy because I think that makes IT less real. That makes more less fill in problem. 对，这就是我的非营利项目。其实我已经暗中资助了一些媒体和实体项目，只是我更愿意谈论具体行动，而非所谓的"慈善事业"——过度标榜反而会让善行失去真实感，更容易掩盖实际问题。

Yeah exactly. Then people get how charity, my charity is. 正是如此。这样人们才能真正理解慈善的本质，明白我的慈善理念。

and then people also come hunting for money. So there's all that disease I don't believe in giving the schools. They have enough money, I believe, have enough money and they not to spend IT. So I think the best use of money is, I think a good business, create a product for people that they're voluntarily by and they get value out of. So in that sense of Steve jobs and iron and and like that have created a lot of value for the world. 然后人们也会为了钱而来。所以我认为不应该把钱给学校，他们有足够的资金，我相信他们有足够的钱，只是没有好好利用。我认为最好的用钱方式是经营一家好企业，为人们创造他们自愿购买并能从中获得价值的产品。从这个意义上说，像史蒂夫·乔布斯和埃隆·马斯克这样的人为世界创造了巨大价值。

So one of the things I can do is I can take my own money and I can invest IT in myself to go and build the next great thing that I think needs to exist. And that's basically what i'm doing right now. I'm doing a new business. 所以我所能做的一件事就是用自己的钱投资自己，去打造我认为应该存在的下一个伟大事物。这基本上就是我现在正在做的事情——我正在创办一家新企业。

I'm self funding IT. I'm flying a lot of money into IT. I'm going to build something that I think is beautiful that I want to see exist um I really want . 我自筹资金，投入了大量金钱。我要打造一个我认为很美、非常希望看到它问世的东西。

to see existence. It's so early it's . 希望它能问世。现在还太早。

we will show a few months, hopefully six months um and i'm excited about IT and that's a good use of money. 我们希望能展示几个月，最好是六个月，我对这个项目感到兴奋，这笔钱花得很值。

What about the worst places to spend wealth? 那么最不值得花钱的地方是哪里呢？

What is the old line if he flies for loads . 那句老话怎么说来着——如果他为了大量飞行...

of four tickets? I got very nice way to change the final left. Very impressive. 四张机票？我有个绝妙的方法来改变最后的结局。非常令人印象深刻。

That's the way I heard IT. 这就是我听说的方式。

Can you created pretty . 你能创造美好。

much fast but yeah yeah, yeah I think that was maybe IT was a felix denis OK who who had that quite yeah said if the flies float for fornix rented I think the last one was a little it's wrong that he he didn't have a family, didn't have kids. So you know he missed the big one um but yeah, there are lots of bad ways to spend money. III believe in investment. 非常快，但没错，是的，我觉得那可能是费利克斯·丹尼斯说的——就是那个说过"如果苍蝇为欲望而飞"的人。我想最后那句有点问题，他没有家庭，没有孩子。所以你知道他错过了最重要的部分。不过确实，花钱的方式有很多糟糕的选择。我相信投资。

You know I don't believe in consumption. Yes, you can. You born with a short housing position, you close that out yourself, a nice house um get yourself some help to free up your time so you're not doing uh things that other people can do Better um treat people well, you know always overpay and expect the best. 我不相信消费主义。当然你可以消费。你生来就带着居住需求，给自己解决这个问题，买栋好房子，雇人帮你腾出时间，这样就不用做那些别人能做得更好的事。善待他人，永远多付点钱，期待最好的结果。

Pay them like they the best, expect the best um but overall, I think a good use of money is to take risks and build things and do things that other people can't do. Align with your own unique talents they can keep delivering to the world. I'm not going to set idle uh the not at a retire that's that's a waste to whatever time I have left on this earth. 给予他们最优厚的报酬，才能期待最卓越的表现。但归根结底，我认为金钱的最佳用途是勇于冒险、创造他人无法实现的事物。要与你独有的天赋同频共振，持续为世界创造价值。我绝不会虚度光阴——退休对我来说无异于浪费生命剩余的时光。

Um and if I am doing something, I enjoy the propel retirement because work is just a set of things you want to do that that that you have to do that you don't want to do so if you want to do IT as much um and so there are things that I want to do don't feel like work. I can put money behind them and I can use that to make the intention ate them into reality. And I don't want to say to make the world a Better place because that's too tired, but it's more just create a product that I am proud of that wouldn't exist otherwise that other people will get tremendous value. 倘若我正在从事热爱的事业，那所谓的退休便毫无意义。工作本应是心甘情愿的付出，而非被迫的苦役。当我全情投入时，那些事情根本不像工作。我可以投入资金，将理想转化为现实。与其空谈改变世界——这说辞太过陈腐——不如打造一款令我自豪的产品，这款本不会存在的产品将为他人带来巨大价值。

And it's been enabled through wealth because you're able to take a level of risk that you wouldn't have been able to other actually yeah. 财富的意义正在于此——它让你能够承担原本无法想象的风险。确实如此。

wealth gives you freedom. That gives you freedom to explore more options. And in my case, that gives me freedom to start businesses without having to ask other people for permission or to warp my vision based on, uh, their desires to make a return or how they think money should be made. 财富赋予你自由。这种自由让你能够探索更多可能性。就我而言，它让我能够自由创业，无需征得他人许可，也不必为了迎合投资人的回报预期或他们对赚钱方式的固有认知而扭曲自己的愿景。

Is anything that you'd add to the how to get rid thread? Is anything where you thought fact, like just one, if I could, going and edit and add one more in other . 关于那个"如何摆脱"的讨论帖，你有什么想补充的吗？有没有哪一点让你觉得"其实只要..."，比如如果我能去编辑，最想再添加的一条建议是什么？

ten thousand pic onest read was so short and I was so limited and IT was so like, you know, craft did in the sense, although I wrote IT very spontaneous ly um IT left so much on the cutting room floor that I could just talk about the topic for days. But it's all contextual, right? 《万图一读》篇幅实在太短，我的表达很受限。虽然写得很随性，但就像电影剪辑会舍弃大量素材那样，这个话题其实足够让我聊上几天。不过这些都要结合具体情境，对吧？

Business is very, very, very contextual like you have to look at the particular business and understand what's being done and why it's being done and how it's being done. And then you can Terry apart or you can and then we assemble IT properly. Um and i'd like to think that, that is actually where I have specific knowledge and experts, my Operations. 商业决策极度依赖具体情境。你必须审视每个企业的特殊性，理解他们在做什么、为什么这么做以及如何运作。这样才能拆解分析，或者...然后我们才能正确重组。我认为这恰恰是我的专业领域所在——在运营方面具备特定认知优势。

And yes, my life is very hacked to be very unique, but I don't think that's where my specific knowledge is. My special knowledge is in being able to analyze a business, especially technology business, and take IT apart at the seems and predict in advance what is likely to work and what is not likely to work. Clubhouse outward standing because you're still going to be wrong most of the time. 确实，我的生活方式经过精心设计显得与众不同，但这并非我的独特专长所在。我真正的专长在于能够剖析企业——尤其是科技企业——像拆解精密仪器般将其分解，并预先判断哪些策略可能奏效、哪些可能失败。Clubhouse 之所以脱颖而出，是因为即便拥有这种能力，大多数时候你依然会判断失误。

It's like playing the lottery. But you know one or two of the tickets numbers in advance, you only have to be right a few times, or even just wants to to get the big score. You know, Peter till started a paypal, but he made my own facebook right? And now he's done more since then, obviously. 这就像买彩票，但你已经提前知道其中一两个号码。你只需要押对少数几次，甚至只需一次就能赢得大奖。彼得·蒂尔创立了 PayPal，但后来不也缔造了 Facebook 吗？显然此后他还取得了更多成就。

Ep, but that was the big winner and that's true. Any power law distribution number one is going to return more than two, three and put together two return more than three, three input together, you're Operating in a highly leverage intellectual domain. So the outcomes are going to be nonlinear AR. Um so II know a lot about the topic is highly contextual IT makes a lot more sense if there's a specific business in front of me, a specific entrepreneur and I can take that apart. I can say, you know so there are certain companies well say, oh, this is not onna work because you, the entrepreneur are doing this for the wrong reasons. 呃，但那个才是大赢家，确实如此。任何幂律分布中，第一名带来的回报都会超过第二名和第三名的总和，第二名又比第三名回报更高。你正在一个高杠杆效应的智力领域运作，所以结果必然是非线性的。嗯...我对这个话题了解很多，但它是高度情境化的——如果眼前有具体的商业案例、特定的创业者，我能分析得更透彻。比如有些公司我会直接说："这行不通，因为创业者你的动机就不对。"

You're you're doing a so you can get to b just go to b or you're doing this to make money when really the person who is doing this because they love the product is going to beat you or you are raising money for the wrong people who are any for the wrong reasons or your cofounder is not the right reasons or you don't have the right kind of co founder or your vesting schedule is wrong or you're starting the business in the wrong place or you approaching IT from this angle that that and of course, I be wrong too, but I ve just seen a lot of data. I have my theories around IT, uh, and that's where I feel very comfortable Operating. The problem is when I have talk about how to create wealth and how to get rich is a click bid title deliberately. 你之所以做 A 是为了达到 B，那不如直接去做 B；或者你创业只为赚钱，但真正热爱产品的人终将超越你；又或者你融资对象不当——他们动机不纯；再或者你的联合创始人初心不正，或你们根本不适合合伙；也可能是股权兑现方案有误，创业地点选择不当，抑或是切入角度偏差。当然我也可能判断错误，但基于大量观察数据，我对这些领域形成了自己的理论体系，操作起来得心应手。问题在于，当我用"如何创造财富/如何致富"这种刻意吸睛的标题讨论时...

But when I talk about how to create wealth, talking about in the abstract is very difficult. Because then you just want to speak truth. You have to just see the timeless stuff. You have to be right. And almost every context. 但若抽象地探讨财富创造之道，实则极为困难。因为这时你必须只讲真话，必须洞悉永恒不变的规律，且几乎在所有情境下都要确保正确。

and that really limits what you can . 这极大限制了你的发挥空间。

say specifically kes IT correct. Expect to philosophy. When I can get specific about IT. The real knowledge is like a welcome. Yeah, part of the reason why I started doing podcast, you know, this is ego at place a little bit freely when I was twisting, you know, I kind of pioneer philosophy, twitter, if you will, or a certain kind of practical, physical hy twitter, where in one hundred forty characters I would try to say something true in an interesting way that was insights to me at the time, but then I can copy. 具体来说，IT 确实如此。期待探讨哲学。当我能够具体谈论 IT 时，真正的知识就像一份馈赠。没错，这也是我开始做播客的部分原因——在推特上自由表达时，我某种程度上开创了哲学推特的先河，或者说是一种实用主义推特。我会用 140 个字符的篇幅，试图以有趣的方式说出当时对我而言具有洞察力的真理，而这些内容之后还能被复制传播。

There's thousands of us now, right, thousands of people spitting IT out ChatGPT trying to create these things all day long um although like to say I like to think that my stuff is incompressible and saying IT in the title way possible which is kind of a little failed poetry background but what I realized was if you truly have a deep understanding of something, then you can talk about a holiday long, then you can read ive everything you need from that understanding. No memorialization you can get to from first principles and every piece of what you know is is like a it's like a legal block that just fits in and forms a steel frame is solid, it's locked in there. And so on a podcast, I can unload much more deeply about some of these topics. Um so for example, we can talk about any business you like, but IT has to be in context, IT has to be real. IT has to be an actual problem then we can solve . 如今我们已有成千上万的人，对吧？成千上万的人整天对着 ChatGPT 滔滔不绝，试图创造这些东西。虽然我想说，我认为自己的作品是不可压缩的（用标题可能的方式表达这一点，带着些许诗歌背景的失败尝试）。但我意识到，如果你真正深刻理解某件事物，就能滔滔不绝地谈论它，就能从中解读出所需的一切。无需死记硬背——你可以从第一性原理出发，每个认知模块都像严丝合缝的钢梁，牢牢嵌在思维框架里。因此在播客中，我能对这些话题进行更深入的剖析。比如我们可以讨论任何你感兴趣的商业案例，但必须置于具体情境中，必须是真实存在的实际问题，这样我们才能真正解决它。

IT just really love that heroic of if you're having to memorize something. 我特别认同这种英雄主义理念：如果你需要死记硬背某些东西。

it's because you don't understand, you don't understand IT, that's right. If you have to memorize something, you don't understand that and if you understand something you don't memorize IT. 那恰恰说明你没真正理解——没错。需要记忆意味着尚未理解，而真正理解的事物根本不需要刻意记忆。

Yeah again, you know, just a sort of called out a lot of what I tried to do this redemption arc thing of if I sound smart, that's like being smart, right? 是啊，又一次，你知道的，我试图通过这种救赎叙事来证明——如果我听起来很聪明，那就等于真的很聪明对吧？

ChatGPT is memorized the entire internet good. Like competing with that. You're not going to beat the memorization. You're not going to be the library memorials, going to be any ten books and memorize. So memorization is not the thing and . ChatGPT 已经完美记忆了整个互联网。想和它比拼记忆力？你永远赢不了。你不可能成为图书馆的纪念碑，随便背下十本书就了事。记忆根本不是重点。

memorial is going down by the day. 记忆的价值每天都在贬值。

It's already so low. Understanding is a thing, being able to being able judgment is a thing, taste is a thing. Um and understanding, judgment, taste, these come out of having real problems and then solving them and then finding the commonalities. 现在已经低得可怜。理解力才是关键，判断力才是关键，品味才是关键。而这些能力都源于解决实际问题后发现的共性规律。

What is philosophy? Everyone, you live long enough, you will be philosopher. Philosophy is just when you find they hidden generalizable truths among the specific experiences that you've had in life, and then you know how to navigate future specific experiences based on some this, and you create a philosophy around that. 什么是哲学？各位，只要活得够久，人人都会成为哲学家。哲学就是当你从具体的人生经历中发现那些隐藏的普遍真理，然后懂得如何依据这些真理应对未来的具体经历，并由此形成自己的哲学体系。

Any subject persued deeply enough eventually lead to philosophy. Mastering anything, literally anything, will lead you to being a philosopher. You just have to stick with a long enough and generalize the truth backup. 任何学科钻研到极致终将通向哲学。精通任何事物——真的是任何事物——都会让你成为哲学家。你只需要坚持足够长的时间，并从中提炼出普适真理。

And these are universal truth. It's back to the unity and variety. You can find. You can find unit in anything if you go deep enough. 这些都是放之四海而皆准的真理。这又回到了统一性与多样性的命题。只要深入探究，你就能在任何事物中发现统一性。

And that's why the tide stuff, unfortunately, sort of keeps coming back around. You like, well, luck. This is clay for . 正因如此，那些老生常谈的话题总是不厌其烦地轮回出现。比如运气这个话题，它就像是...（此处原文不完整）

kind of a reason cause for reasons uh but you know sometimes you learn new things. Sometimes you do figure out new things to a even even in philosophy for example, scientists advanced as science as advance is actually expanded our boundaries of philosophy um when we used to think that uh knew the earth was the center of the universe, you would actually have a different philosophical outlook. 某种程度上，这确实是个缘由。不过你也知道，有时候我们会学到新东西，甚至在某些领域——比如哲学——也会有新发现。随着科学不断进步，实际上拓展了哲学的边界。当我们曾以为地球是宇宙中心时，那种世界观会塑造完全不同的哲学视角。

Then when you think the universe is vast and we're in fantastic small IT will give you a different physical hc outlook. Uh the same way if you think that uh the nature there is driven by Angels and demons and gods versus if there are laws of physics that are computable and understandable that will lead you to a different philosophical outlook. Uh if you think that knowledge is something that is passed down from above and through generations, which is something that is created on the fly and then tested against reality that will lead a different physical hc outlook. If you think humans are created by god as opposed to humans evolved from some, you know you cell or organism, yes, still doesn't solve the original problems that. 而当你意识到宇宙浩瀚无垠、人类渺若微尘时，这又会催生另一种物理哲学观。同理，若你认为自然现象由天使恶魔或神明驱使，与认为存在可计算、可理解的物理定律相比，这两种认知会导致截然不同的哲学立场。倘若你觉得知识是自上而下世代相传的圣谕，而非根据现实即时创造并验证的产物，这同样会导向不同的物理哲学观。认为人类由神创造的观点，与认为人类从单细胞生物进化而来的认知——虽然仍未解决那些根本问题——

but at least that takes you take on the road. 但至少能带你走上探索之路。

even symptoms, is an attempt at reform. That in philosophy, based on what we know about computers, even the kind of lead a lot of the same, but IT is at least philosophy that is informed by technology and by science. So philosophy can also involve involved. 即便症状显现，也是一种改革的尝试。在哲学领域，基于我们对计算机的认知，即便许多研究方向趋同，但信息技术至少是一门受科技与科学启发的哲学。因此，哲学同样可以包含参与性元素。

Moral philosophy involves, right? Uh, there was a time when every culture, practically, there was a congress culture, practice slavery. Now, almost all cultures of our slavery, that's moral philosophy having evolved. You know, there was even like the sounds too ludgate to be true, and I don't know if IT fully is true, but there were AA fairly large group of doctors based on studies who believed until the one thousand nine hundred eighties that babies couldn't feel pain. 道德哲学涉及演变，对吧？呃，曾几何时几乎每种文明都存在奴隶制文化。如今几乎所有文明都废除了奴隶制，这正是道德哲学演进的结果。有些说法听起来甚至荒谬得令人难以置信——虽然我不确定其完全真实性——但根据研究显示，直到 1980 年代仍有相当数量的医生认为婴儿无法感知疼痛。

And so even to this, I think circumvention is done without anxious and because under the theory that you know very Young children, bb don't feel pain course, so people can be stuck in bad philosophical traps for a long period time, so even philosophe can make progress. And uh, as an example, one of the realization that I had this is stinks to uh, David doyle and my friend James pearson. Also thinking IT through a little bit is that there are these timeless old questions that we run into where the answer seemed like paradoxes. 因此，即便面对这种情况，我认为规避行为是在没有焦虑的情况下完成的，因为根据"婴幼儿感受不到疼痛"的理论，人们可能长期陷入糟糕的哲学陷阱——但即便是哲学也能取得进展。举个例子，我和大卫·多伊尔以及我的朋友詹姆斯·皮尔森共同意识到，有些亘古难题看似无解，答案往往呈现悖论状态。

So we stop thinking about them. So an examples, free will. Do you have free will, or does anything matters or meaning to life? And and we get stuck in them because, for example, is there a meaning to life? Like, yes, life has a because you, you're right here. You create your own meaning. 于是我们停止思考这些问题。比如自由意志——你拥有自由意志吗？生命是否有意义？我们之所以困在这些问题里，举例来说：生命有意义吗？当然有，因为你此刻就存在着，你创造着自己的意义。

This, this moment has all the meaning you could imagine all the meaning there is on their hand, you gonna die, all goes zero heat of the universe has no meaning, right? So which one is IT? Well, the reason that seems paradox xcl is because you're asking the question of a human here now, at a certain scale, in a certain time, and then you're answering IT from the viewpoint of the universe over infinite time. 此刻，你手中握着的这一瞬间蕴含着所有你能想象的意义——宇宙间存在的全部意义。你会死去，一切归零，宇宙的热寂毫无意义，对吧？那么究竟哪个才是真相？这种看似矛盾的现象源于：你以当下人类的视角在特定尺度、特定时间提出疑问，却试图用无限时间维度下宇宙的视角来作答。

So you pull the trick, you switch the level at which you answer the question, and question should be answered at the level at which they asked. So if you ask the question is the meaning you, Chris, are asking that question yes yes to Chris, there is meaning. There is a meaning right here. 你耍了个花招——切换了回答问题的维度层级。问题本应在提问者的认知层面得到解答。如果你问"克里斯，生命有意义吗？"，那么答案对克里斯而言必然是肯定的。意义就存在于此时此刻此地。

This is the meaning interpretation you want onto IT um don't ask the question as Chris and answered as god, as the universe. That's the trick that you're playing. That's what IT seems the same way you can say, do I have free will? People debate free will all day long. 这才是你该采纳的意义诠释。别用凡人之躯提问，却妄想获得神明或宇宙级的答案。这就是你正在玩的认知把戏。就像人们终日争论"我有自由意志吗？"这个问题同样陷入了框架错位。

The question is answered at the wrong frame, so they asked the questions, do I and individual have free will? Hello, I have free will. My mind body system can predict what i'm going to do next. 当人们以错误维度框架提问时——比如"作为个体我有自由意志吗？"，答案早已扭曲。醒醒吧，我当然拥有自由意志。我的身心系统能够预判自己接下来的行动。

The universe, infinite, complex. I'm making a choice in my mind i'm doing, there's my free will. So I answered the level which you will ask. Of course, I have free will because I feel like I have free will, and I treat you like you free will, and you treat me like I freewill. We have free will. 宇宙，无限而复杂。此刻我正做出内心的抉择，这就是我的自由意志。我已回应了你将要提出的问题层次。当然，我拥有自由意志，因为我感受到自由意志的存在；我以自由意志对待你，你也以自由意志回应我。我们皆具自由意志。

The problem then, if you start trying to answer the question as if you, the universe you like, all on the universal scale, big bank particle collision? No, what makes any choices? You know, how could you be any different than what the universe wanted to be? And is all one block universe so you don't have free will? Don't answer the question at the level at which IT wasn't asked. 但问题在于，若试图以宇宙尺度作答——比如大爆炸粒子碰撞——那么谁在做选择？你如何能违背宇宙的既定轨迹？若宇宙是凝固的整体，自由意志岂非虚妄？但切记：不要在问题未曾提出的维度强作解答。

So god ask the question, is there free will? No, there is no free will. The universe asked a question, there is no free will. But if an individual ask a question right now, then, yes, there is free. Well, so a lot of these paradoxes resolve themselves, philosophical paradoxes that people i've been struggling with since of being a time when you just realized you're answering them at a scale and time different than they were asked. 当神明发问"存在自由意志吗"，答案是否定的。宇宙层面叩问时，自由意志并不存在。但若个体此刻追问，答案便是肯定的。许多哲学悖论由此消解，那些困扰人类千年的难题，往往源于我们总在错误的时空尺度上寻找答案。

Speaking of updating beliefs, is anything that you change? You remind around recently. 说到信念更新，可有什么新见解？你最近似乎有所转变。

very recently, I mean, at all the time. But are you talking about like philosophical. 就在最近，我是说，一直以来都是这样。但你指的是哲学层面的吗？

like essential things, or like technological things? Yeah, philosophical existe anything that . 比如本质性的东西，还是技术性的东西？对，哲学上是否存在任何...

comes to money, if you, yeah, then I used to be in a societal level, I think that culture and religion are good CoOperating systems for humans. And so if you want to Operate a hydra society, you need to have sets of rules that people need to follow base. They get a long one size fit. S all doesn't work . 说到金钱，如果你...是的，我曾经在社会层面思考过，我认为文化和宗教对人类来说是良好的协同运作系统。所以如果你想运作一个庞大社会，就需要建立一套人们必须遵循的基本规则。那种一刀切的模式根本行不通。

a little bit from libertarian. yeah. 我有点偏向自由意志主义。是的。

I pure libertarians get out competed and die. They get over run because they're every man for himself. They can't code. They can ordinate the right um so the coordination problems culture exists to solve fundamental coordination problems religion solve coordination problems ethically solves coordination problems historical um and when you break down those coordination systems too fast and don't replace them with anything else, you get societal breakdown so you can have very malfunctioning societies. 纯粹的自由主义者会被淘汰并消亡。他们溃败是因为各自为战。他们无法编写代码。他们无法协调正确的机制——文化存在的意义就是解决根本性的协调问题，宗教解决协调问题，伦理解决协调问题，历史也解决协调问题。当你过快地瓦解这些协调系统却不用其他东西替代时，社会就会分崩离析，最终导致功能严重失调的社会。

You know, go to japan, where is a go into western city and you can see the difference being AAA culture that's working in a culture that's not so II think that that's like AAA broader set of things that I ve changed my mind on AA fair bit. I used to be much more lazy fair on that stuff, let's put that way. Um what else? I mean, child raising, i've gotten a lot loser. You know i'm still not like completely the fair, but i'm much more realized like kids are going to be kids and you can let them do their thing. This is IT taliban . 比如去日本，走进西方城市，你能看到文化运作效率的显著差异——一个运转良好的文化对比一个失调的文化。这让我改变了对许多事情的看法，可以说我在这方面变得没那么天真了。以前我对这类问题的看法要理想化得多，这么说吧。还有什么呢？育儿观念上我也放松了很多。虽然还不算完全放任，但我更明白了孩子终究是孩子，应该让他们自由发展。这就是塔利班式的教育。

has the ascending levels of like anechoic m versus conservative m is that his inside like at the local level on this IT seems like you've gotten the other way like . 存在类似消声室与保守主义的等级差异，他在内部就像在地方层面上对 IT 的看法似乎你弄反了方向。

at . 在。

the child level and anus, the societal level. 儿童层面与肛门层面，社会层面。

Yeah, no, he was quoting somebody else, some brothers. I forget which ones, but he was making the point. Equality, as he often does, that uh, at at the family local level, he's a communist. 是的不，他当时在引用别人的话，某位兄弟的。我记不清具体是谁了，但他要表达的观点是平等——就像他经常做的那样——呃，在家庭和地方层面，他是个共产主义者。

St, the family level are communist, uh, at maybe the the extended family level of you are socialist. The local level you're kind of a，uh, a democrat and so on. Until that, the federal level, your libertarian. 在家庭层面，你们是共产主义者；在大家族层面，你们是社会主义者；在地方层面，你们有点像民主主义者；到了联邦层面，你们就成了自由主义者。

right? You ve done in the other way, you liberati with the kids and your religious . 对吧？你们反其道而行之——对孩子放任自由，对信仰却严守教条。

service ety. I don't I don't know the scale. Is that that simple? Um what also change my mind on I mean, I think the modern AI is really cool. I think it's but I think these are nurse language computers um they are starting to show evidence of kind of uh, reasoning at some levels but I don't think they do creativity. I think modern AI. 说实话我不确定这个分级是否如此简单。另外改变我想法的是...现代人工智能确实很酷，但这些本质上只是语言计算机。它们开始展现出某种程度的推理能力，但我不认为具备创造力。现代 AI...

So just on that, one of my favorite takes is from door cash petalled in. He says, a if you gave any human on the planet, not point, not not, not one percent of the consumption. That LLM has any L. 关于这点，我最认同 Door Cash Petalled 的观点：如果给地球上任何一个人——注意不是 0.1%也不是 1%——分配 LLM（任何大型语言模型）所消耗的资源...

M. They would have come up with thousands of new ideas, right? Give me one new idea. 他们本可以想出成千上万的新点子，对吧？给我一个新点子。

A new idea generated. 一个新点子诞生了。

Yeah, I get in the poetry. 是啊，我懂诗里的意境。

Every power never written by an alm is garbage. I think even their fiction writing is terrible. Even the new GP, T, four, five with all do respect to samon crew, I think they're terrible writers. 所有未经灵魂淬炼的文字都是垃圾。我认为他们连小说创作都很糟糕。即便是最新的 GPT-4、5——绝无对萨蒙团队不敬之意——在我看来也都是糟糕的写手。

I find them really bad at summarizing. They're really good extrapolating, you know, paperwork. They're very bad at actually distilling the essence of something and what's important. They don't have an opinions or a point of view, but they're still unbelievably powerful. breakthrough. They solve search, they solve natural language computing, they make english a programing language to solve driving, this solve uh, simple coding and backup coding, this solve translation, this solve tranest ript. 我发现它们非常不擅长总结。它们很擅长推断，你知道的，处理文书工作。但在真正提炼事物本质和重点方面表现很差。它们没有自己的观点或立场，但仍然强大得令人难以置信。这是一项突破。它们解决了搜索问题，解决了自然语言计算，使英语成为编程语言来解决驾驶问题，解决了简单的编码和备份编码，解决了翻译问题，解决了转录问题。

There are a fundamental breakthrough in computing, is a different way to program a computer, rather than you explicit speak its language, right the code, and then runs the data through users, runs of data through IT until the figures out how to write the program. That's huge. But are they are they AGI not yet. 这是计算领域的根本性突破，是一种不同的计算机编程方式。不同于你必须用它的语言明确编写代码，然后让数据通过用户运行，通过 IT 运行数据直到它找出如何编写程序。这意义重大。但它们是否达到了人工通用智能（AGI）的水平？还没有。

I don't see a direct path from here to there. Um maybe we'll have to solve a few more problems before that happens. And I think AS size of fantasy. I don't think such uh, artificial super intelligence where IT has some kind of intelligence . 我看不到从这里到那里的直接路径。嗯，也许在那之前我们还需要解决更多问题。而且我认为 AS（人工超级智能）目前还属于幻想范畴。我不认为那种具有某种人类可接受智能的人工超级智能已经存在。

that humans can find them OK a yeah IT seems like I don't know if you from the boston camp or whatever in no. 看起来...我不知道你是否来自波士顿阵营或其他什么，但答案是否定的。

I do, but I think that's such a flawed . 我确实这么认为，但我觉得这种推理存在很大漏洞。

line of reasoning. But let's say that you came out of the last dom and there was this sort of lining age from computers. And AI gets more powerful, more powerful, more powerful. 假设你从上一个时代走出来，目睹计算机技术逐渐发展成熟。而人工智能变得越来越强大，越来越强大，越来越强大。

And then you end up aga s and IT. Seems like l ms. Have been the sort of orthogonal move from that. Which are you saying you don't believe they are a step on that is of a little bit of yeah think a different branch. 最终你却再次面对 IT 领域。看起来语言模型似乎是从另一个维度发展而来的技术。你是说你不认为它们是这条发展路径上的一环？确实，我认为它们更像是不同的分支。

I think Steven wolf puts a Better to different form of intelligence. It's like you jg or in the jungle that has a different form of intelligence and you're like a plant as a form of intelligence, how you can like photosynthesize and grow. It's a different form of intelligence. 我认为史蒂芬·沃尔夫提出了更好的观点——这是不同形式的智能。就像你在丛林中遇到的生物拥有不同形式的智能，植物通过光合作用和生长展现的也是一种独特智能形式。这是截然不同的智能形态。

It's not an intelligence. Again, like love or like happiness is overload word. That means many things to many people. 它并非智能。就像"爱"或"幸福"这类被过度使用的词汇，对不同的人意味着不同的事物。

But by my definition, where you know the true tested, you get what you want out of life. He does not want to have a life. He does not want anything a different thing um I do think it's unbelievable useful. I'm glad that IT exists. You don't see IT much yet in large scale production systems replacing humans because this tendency to illustrates so you can't put IT into . 但根据我的定义，当你知道什么是真正经得起考验的，就能从生活中获得想要的东西。他并不想要这样的人生。他什么都不渴望——这是完全不同的概念。不过我认为它确实非常有用，很高兴这项技术存在。目前你还没看到它在大规模生产系统中取代人类，因为它存在这种倾向...所以你不能把它直接应用于...

anything this ca one time out of and IT . 任何这类...偶尔会出错的系统...

does even know when it's wrong, uh, and maybe theyll get that one out of ten down to one out of a hundred. But you kind of always want human oversight for critical to al things. 它甚至不知道自己在犯错，呃，也许他们能把十次出错一次降到百次出错一次。但对于关键事务，你始终需要人类监督。

I always feel so bitter it's i'm pty. Sometimes my less version of me is petty and I always want to like teach you a lesson if I get something wrong like how to know you was so comfort. I'm treating IT. But repositioning IT doesn't have a . 我总是感到如此愤懑，皆因心胸狭隘。有时那个不够大度的我会斤斤计较，总想着若在诸如"如何知道你如此舒适"这类事情上出错，就要给你个教训。我正在处理这个问题，但重新定位它并非易事。

point of view and they are gonna a lot Better. And they might get to the point where the air rates are so low that you can put them into certain bounded problems like self driving. I think we'll be solved completely because it's a bounded problem. 从某种角度来看，它们会变得好得多。甚至可能发展到故障率极低的地步，足以将其应用于特定边界明确的问题，比如自动驾驶。我认为这类问题终将被完全解决，毕竟它属于有明确边界的问题范畴。

Cars do you know, go like off road and drive through houses and stuff like that. So because same way, like certain kinds of coding, the creative side of coding, I think, doesn't go away. I think if anything, programmer get even more leverage, more powerful. And rather than computing, replacing programmer, programmer use AI to replace everybody . 要知道，汽车可能会越野行驶，甚至撞穿房屋之类。同理，我认为编程中具有创造性的那部分不会消失。恰恰相反，程序员将获得更大的杠杆效应和更强能力。与其说计算机会取代程序员，不如说程序员会利用 AI 取代其他所有...

else on a test levers is way more would you bet on software or hardware self driving? ...测试环节的岗位。如果要下注，你会押注软件还是硬件的自动驾驶方案？

yeah. So I think testers in the stronger, longer term position, but it's hard to argue what's working right now and we will is working right now. So I would not underestimate them because there's a learning curve that you go through when you actually deploy something. 确实。我认为测试人员处于更稳固、更长期的岗位，但很难断言当前哪种方案更有效，而我们现行的方案确实行之有效。因此我不会低估他们，因为实际部署时存在一个需要克服的学习曲线。

And we as we had in that regard. But text less camera only approach, if IT works, is a superior, is much more scalable. And tesla knows how to print cars, right? They can just mass manufacturer cars. But I think I think we'll both be around we'll both be fine. Everybody else who doesn't have a self driving . 正如我们之前讨论的，纯视觉方案若能奏效，无疑是更具扩展性的解决方案。特斯拉深谙汽车量产之道，对吧？他们完全能实现规模化生产。不过我认为两种技术路线都会继续存在，我们都能发展得很好。真正陷入困境的，是那些尚未掌握自动驾驶技术的厂商。

vehicle that screwed you mentioned the kids there. You had a tweet that said, i'm not convinced that declining futility needs to be proactively fought. 你刚才提到儿童安全问题时，曾发推表示"我不认为需要主动应对生育率下降的问题"。

I forgot that . 我忘记这茬了。

one I do. Um why? 我确实这么想。呃，为什么呢？

Well II think back like I was thirty years ago, twenty years ago everybody was think over population of the earth to be a problem usia. We're going to have people and a few people part of IT is just the duma ism meme is always alive and well, right? Just packet. 回想二三十年前，当时所有人都认为地球人口过剩是个大问题。我们会人满为患...其实部分原因只是末日论调永远都有市场，对吧？纯粹胡扯。

Yeah I we're running out of oil with too much oil, right? You know, it's like the world is cooling. The world is warming. 是啊，我们以前说石油要枯竭，现在又说石油太多。全球要变冷，全球要变暖。

Like there's always something scream about the world is ending. There's no progress in technology. AS gona blow the world, right? So people tend to overdo in both directions. 总有人叫嚣世界末日要来了。技术进步会毁灭世界。人们总爱在两个极端上走过头。

Now, what is the actual fertility problem? right? Well, people are having less kids. 那么，实际的生育问题到底是什么呢？其实是因为人们生育的孩子越来越少了。

Are they having less kids? Because there's a disease? Was there a virus that they lose their fertility? 是因为生育能力下降吗？是某种疾病导致的吗？还是说存在某种病毒影响了生育能力？

The microplate tics and the text, no, it's people are having less kids because they're choosing to have less kids, right? Women have have gotten immanence pated independence in the workforce. They're making more money. 微观层面的数据和研究都表明，生育率下降纯粹是人们的自主选择。女性在职场获得了更多独立性和话语权，经济收入也提高了。

Um people don't need kids and insurance policies. They have less kids may be they're living here in the stick lives, got blessin want more fun. They want of these kids. 人们不再需要"养儿防老"，生育意愿降低可能是因为——愿上帝保佑——现代人更追求生活品质。他们想要享受人生，而不是被孩子束缚。

I don't see the act of choosing to have less kids is a problem OK. So let's move one level up. Uh, it's because the retirees it's because a large present of the population is essentially retiring at the guarantee age of sixty five ty. 我不认为选择少生孩子本身是个问题。好，我们往更深一层看。呃，这是因为退休人员——因为人口中很大比例的人基本上都在 65 岁法定年龄退休了。

And so they need other people to pay for IT. They need more workers in the workforce. And if the workforce is shrinking, then you have a small number of people exactly who are supporting a large number of retirees. 所以他们需要其他人来承担这笔开支。他们需要更多劳动力。如果劳动力正在萎缩，那就意味着少数人必须供养大量退休人员。

And in democracies, you can take pensions away if the voters vote you out. So this slowly struggle, the economy. So what do you do? Then you have a bunch of immigration. 而在民主国家，如果选民投票让你下台，养老金就可能被削减。这种缓慢的消耗会拖累经济。那该怎么办呢？于是就有了大规模移民。

And then the whole culture changes in another low trust society. And people start fighting over limited resources and how to control which immigrants come in. How do you make sure that they're good taxpayers after they're in and so on. 接着整个文化在另一个低信任度的社会里发生改变。人们开始争夺有限资源，争论如何控制移民流入。如何确保他们入境后成为合格的纳税人等等问题。

So you end up with in in kind of trap where the low fertility rate is upstream of the dow stream. Problems that our cultural, social, but i'm not sure that you're going to solve that by making people have more kids. How are you gonna mean them into having more kids and not even sure it's still be a problem. 最终你会陷入这样一个困境：低生育率是上游问题，而下游则是文化、社会层面的问题。但我不确定通过让人们多生孩子就能解决这个问题。你怎么可能强迫人们多生育呢？甚至不确定这仍然是个问题。

Keep in mind, you have more resources now. You have less of a burden now. The flip side where every kid is a lottery ticket, my invention. So there's some benefit to having more kids, but you you can force IT. I think it'll work itself out, right? 别忘了，现在你们拥有更多资源，负担也更轻。反过来想，每个孩子都像一张彩票——这是我的观点。所以多生孩子确实有好处，但这事强求不来。我觉得问题会自然解决，对吧？

The Scott Adams is just a great log, which cause the Adams's love slowed ing disasters when disasters are very slow moving, like p oil, or global warming, or population collapse, and everyone can to see them coming. Economics and society is a force seldom m because enough individual people has since tatis to go solve them. So I don't know exactly how IT gets solved, but I think I could get solved in various ways. 斯科特·亚当斯有句精辟的论断：当灾难像石油危机、全球变暖或人口崩溃这样缓慢发生时，亚当斯所说的"慢动作灾难"就会出现——人人都能预见却无人行动。经济和社会具有自我修正的力量，因为总会有足够多的个体主动解决问题。虽然我不知道具体会如何解决，但我相信解决途径肯定是多元化的。

Uh one example could be um you know maybe people retire later, maybe AI automation and robots take care. The older people maybe we figure how to have immigrants while still keeping a hy trust society. We kind of put more rules on immigration that protects them with a high trust benefits. 一个可能的例子是，人们或许会延迟退休，也许人工智能和自动化机器人能承担照料工作。对于老龄化问题，我们或许能找到在保持高信任度社会的同时吸纳移民的方法。我们可以制定更完善的移民政策，既保护他们又能维持高福利社会的信任体系。

Maybe we outsource more things. Maybe we just, you know, have more land and housing to go around blame. We are having too many kids. 或许我们可以外包更多事务。也许只需开发更多土地和住房资源，就能缓解当前生育率过高的压力。

I would be complain about how there's no housing and there's no land. So they will always find something to care about. So I just don't view this as like a thing that any individual or government action is going to solve. I think economics and incentives over time will solve IT. And i'm not even convinced like that big of a problem. 人们总会抱怨住房紧张和土地稀缺。这种焦虑永远存在，因此我不认为这能通过个人或政府行为彻底解决。相信随着时间推移，经济规律和市场调节会自然化解这个问题。我甚至不认为这算得上多么严重的困境。

Is there anything that you do think . 那么您认为是否存在任何真正值得担忧的...

is IT may be self correcting too, which is that if there are too few kids in society in the returns to having . 社会可能也会自我调节，当生育回报率过低时，孩子的数量自然会减少。

kids literally might just go up IT might just . 生育率最终可能会回升，因为...

be easier to have the incentive to now have a . 现在人们可能更有动力生育...

child because there's inside, which is you look at all of the other people around who don't have kids. Let's say that pensions completely drop off. And the only way that old people are able to survive if their children paid them some sort of type ends, like reverse send money up to generations OK. Well, that's a pretty fucking good. 孩子了。试想这样的场景：环顾四周都是无子女的人。假设养老金体系彻底崩溃，老年人唯一的生存方式就是靠子女反哺——就像逆向的世代赡养。好吧，这确实是个相当有力的...

Incentives is a good thing. I also think that people have been meant into thinking that kids make your life worse. And that's that's a pretty. 激励是件好事。我也认为人们被灌输了"孩子会让生活更糟"的观念。这实在是...

pretty bad. 糟糕透顶。

What about my kids? Make your life Better in every possible way, if you, if you want an automatic building meeting to life, have kids. Uh, and I think they're these bad psych studies like most site studies, unfortunately, that say that people are unhappy when they have kids. 我的孩子们呢？他们从方方面面让生活更美好——如果你想要一个自动为生命赋能的机制，那就养育孩子吧。呃，我觉得那些糟糕的心理学研究——可惜大多数都是这类研究——声称有孩子的人都不快乐。

Yes, because you're catching in the midst, changing a dire and you're saying, like, are you glad you had kids are not say that they say, are you happy and they say, no, are not happy right now. But what they don't realize that person is found something more important than being happy in the moment they found meaning. And the meaning comes from kids. 没错，因为你捕捉的是转变期的混乱状态。就像问"你庆幸自己有孩子吗"，他们不问这个，而是问"你快乐吗"，对方回答"不，现在不快乐"。但他们没意识到，这人已经发现了比即时快乐更重要的事物——他们找到了意义。而这意义正是孩子带来的。

And if you ask parents, do you regret having kids? I think would be nine, nine to one against, you know, I would be, no, I don't regret having kids. I love having kids. I'm so glad I had kids. It's incredibly rare to meet a parent that regretted having children. 如果你问父母是否后悔要孩子，我想比例会是九比一反对后悔。大多数人会说：不，我不后悔要孩子。我爱有孩子的感觉，很高兴自己当了父母。现实中几乎遇不到后悔生孩子的家长。

H it's it's extremely good odds and I think so I think I think a lot of people get late into life and uh then they can admit that they didn't want kid, that they should have had kids. It's kind of late in the game um but you know a lot of times you see everybody who has a pet, right uh and they're pushing them around in a stoller. What is that that's a sublimate and . 这个比例非常乐观。我认为很多人步入晚年时才敢承认，其实他们不想要孩子，本不该生育。只是为时已晚。不过你看现在很多人养宠物，用婴儿车推着遛弯——这明显是生育欲望的替代性满足。

desire for children yeah a malcolm Collins says that having a pet is to children as using porn is to sex. He basically thinks that it's . 对孩子的渴望确实如此。马尔科姆·柯林斯说过：养宠物之于养育子女，就像看色情片之于真实性爱。他认为这本质上就是...

sort of a sorry goods. It's definitely in that direction. And now I don't have. I like pets. I like animals. I don't but I don't like the idea of like neutering or spaying something and then keeping IT as a prisoner in the house and having to train that you know I don't want to be responsible for that is. 一种劣质替代品。虽然不完全准确，但确实有这个倾向。我个人喜欢动物，但反对阉割宠物后把它们囚禁在家里，还要训练它们服从——我不想承担这种责任。

given that you've been thinking more about child wearing kids, what do you hope that your kids learn from their childhood? 既然你一直在思考育儿问题，你希望孩子们从童年中学到什么？

This is be happy to what they want. I don't I don't have particular goals in mind for them. I think that's a that's another right . 只要他们能快乐地追求自己想要的就好。我并没有为他们设定具体的目标。我认为这本身就是另一种正确。

to unhappiness having right learn, learn of his goals is not necessary. What do they want? What do you want them to want out of life? Like what is that the you have idea around your number one job as a parent is to provide unconditional level of, yeah that's right. So I can be loved, or I am loved unconditionally. 强行灌输所谓正确目标反而可能导致不快乐。他们真正渴望什么？你希望他们对生活怀有怎样的期待？作为父母的首要职责，就是给予无条件的爱——没错正是如此。让孩子感受到"我被无条件爱着"的安全感。

Is that one of the things and my kids to feel unconditionally loved, and I want them to have high self steam as a consequence of that. But I don't get to choose any all. I get to choose on my output. 这正是我的育儿信条之一：让孩子感受到无条件的爱，从而培养他们的高度自尊。但我无法替他们做任何选择，我能掌控的只有自己付出的爱。

I can output love. I can choose what they feel. I can choose how they behave. I can choose what they want. I can choose what they turn out to be. 我能输出爱意。我能选择让他们感受什么。我能决定他们的行为方式。我能左右他们的渴望。我能掌控他们最终成为的模样。

And downstream from that, there should be freedom. There should be a degree of freedom that comes from the self system that comes from the unconditional. 而在这之后，应当存在自由。应当有一种源自无条件之爱的自我系统所赋予的自由度。

should make their own mistakes and learn their own lessons and have their own desires and fulfill them as is appropriate. Um I like any parent, I wouldn't want them to be hurt, I wouldn't want them to be unhappy, but I cannot control these things. 他们应该自己犯错、吸取教训、拥有并实现恰当的欲望。就像任何父母一样，我不愿看到他们受伤，不希望他们不快乐，但我无法控制这些事。

Um you replied to my friends rob henderson, who was talking about um how kids fall asleep more quickly when they're being Carried. Uh, he said, cry IT out and go sleeping is dangerous. What's IYI science? 你回复了我朋友罗布·亨德森，他谈到孩子被抱着时入睡更快。他说"哭到睡着"的做法很危险。什么是 IYI 科学？

II was a museum teeb a intellectual at idiot. These are people who are over educated. They deny like basic common sense. Okay uh so there's a lot of that that goes on in child rearing uh thanks to really bad studies uh and and bad public medical directive. So for example, you know uh a few uh a few parents, you may be they are drunker, they're high or they are just other issues and you know they rule over their kid when sleeping, the kids soft cates, or they nickleby their . 我曾是个博物馆里的书呆子，那种过度教育的知识分子。这些人连基本常识都要否定。在育儿领域就有很多这类现象，都拜那些糟糕的研究和错误的公共卫生指导所赐。比如说，有些父母可能喝醉了、嗑药了或者有其他问题，结果睡觉时压到了孩子柔软的头骨，或是无意中伤到了孩子。

kid and go sleep in the . 然后自己倒头就睡。

but yeah exactly or there you know the the modern program tion. And so because of that they say we don't go sleep with their kids. Well, the kids, every society through all of human history, coat with their parents. 但你说得对，这就是现代育儿指南的后果。正因如此，他们宣称不能和孩子同睡。可纵观人类历史，每个社会的孩子都是和父母同眠的。

Where else you think they were sleeping? They were in house of multiple room. Yeah exactly. IT is just nonsense. Coast sleeping has been around since the dawn of time so has a feeding kids cow milk when or goat milk when breast milk is runs out or is not available um yet we're told formula you know made with soy and corn sera which was invented recently, somehow Better than uh cow milk and cow milk can be dangerous for your kids and cosy evening is dangerous for your kids and cried out right answer all that is nonsense. I mean it's very clear that um we raise children throughout human history without uh these interventions. 你觉得他们还能睡哪儿？他们住的是多房间的宅子。没错，简直胡说八道。自古以来就有海边睡觉的做法，母乳不足或无法获取时喂孩子牛奶羊奶也由来已久——可如今却有人鼓吹用近期才发明的豆类玉米糖浆配方奶，说什么比牛奶更好，说什么牛奶会危害孩子，说依偎而眠会危害孩子，这些统统都是鬼话。很明显，人类千百年来养育孩子根本不需要这些所谓现代干预措施。

To me, the idea that like you let your kid cry out, I get why that's done for practical reasons so that you know you can get some sleep and you can go to work in the morning. But the reality is when you let the kid cried out, you're letting the kid ball until they finally gives up. I mean, a kid left by itself to cry IT out in the world going to get eaten, right? It's going to get to eat by tiger. Um so this kid is starting off in the wrong foundation. The the the one I mentioned earlier about the idea that babies don't feel pain like that's ludicrously i've never heard of yes. 对我来说，让孩子哭到停的想法——我理解这是出于实际考虑，比如父母能睡个好觉、第二天能上班。但现实是，当你让孩子哭到放弃时，就像让幼崽在野外独自哭嚎最终会被老虎吃掉一样荒谬。这个孩子从开始就建立在错误的基础上。之前提到的"婴儿感觉不到疼痛"的理论更是荒唐至极，我闻所未闻。

it's such a while. Yeah. 确实如此。没错。

that's one hundred percent too. I read IT. 百分之百同意。我读过相关资料。

I read IT in the cheek quite hard. 我读的时候气得牙痒痒。

That's category ID on twitter. And I did one level confirmation on IT but that I should really do two confirmations on IT before I talk about IT. Um but they're definitely some people who believe that they're enough that I was a thing um in certain circles for a while. 这是推特上的分类 ID。关于 IT 方面我只做了一层确认，但其实在讨论 IT 话题前应该做双重确认。嗯，不过确实有些人深信不疑——在某些圈子里，曾一度流传过关于我的这种说法。

But I think we just go through these know these IYI believe is intellectually, if he believes come from people who uh take a little bit of knowledge and extrapolated too far, they think we know more than we know due to recent scientific studies. And these are junk science. These are low power studies on uh you know on very certain context that they get over applied behavior. 但我觉得我们经历的这些所谓"知识精英"的信念，其实来自那些掌握零星知识就过度 extrapolate 的人。由于近期某些科学研究，他们误以为我们知道的比实际更多。这些都是垃圾科学——你知道的，那些在特定情境下进行低效力的研究，却被过度套用在行为分析上。

Psych is very guilty of this, but it's true across a lot of science um so even with science you have to be skeptical. You have to look very carefully add you know does applying the right context or not is come from good sources that they run enough high power studies of why the accepted and they're whole bunch of things you're just not supposed to talk about. You're not supposed to say like you don't say like you you can say anything negative about a vaccine because, god forbid, what if they don't get the polio vaccine right? And that's part of the reason why the recent vaccine debate, because we've taken our worship for vaccines too far, because we don't want people to not take nonessential of vaccines. 心理学在这方面确实难辞其咎，但这种现象在科学界普遍存在。即便是科学研究，你也必须保持怀疑态度。你得仔细审视——研究是否运用了正确的背景？数据来源是否可靠？是否进行了足够多的高效度研究？为什么这些结论会被学界接受？而且有太多话题根本不允许讨论。比如你绝不能对疫苗发表任何负面言论——天知道，万一有人因此拒绝接种脊髓灰质炎疫苗怎么办？这正是近期疫苗争议的根源之一，我们把对疫苗的崇拜推向了极端，只因害怕人们错过那些非核心疫苗的接种。

So IT done the same way. There is whole sids thing, sudden infant death, th syndrome, right right now. There's kids don't suddenly, mysteriously died, like more likely there was neglect or there was a problem. IT 领域同样如此。就拿婴儿猝死综合症（SIDS）来说，现在那些所谓"突然神秘死亡"的婴幼儿案例，更可能是源于监护疏忽或其他潜在问题。

And then whoever was a caretaker doesn't want to admit to the problem. We didn't reregulate ze the problem. But kids don't just spontaneous ly die the grip right um so they talk about sweetling babies. You swallow babies you know basically tie them, mom fy them uh so you constrict them so they die of sids when they rolled over and they can get back is all this crazy? That's around . 然后那些看护者都不愿承认问题存在。我们没有重新审视这个问题。但孩子不会无缘无故就窒息死亡，对吧？所以他们谈论"天使宝宝"——你把宝宝裹起来，绑住他们，让他们窒息而死，当他们翻身时就会死于婴儿猝死综合症，而且无法自救，这一切难道不疯狂吗？这些说法到处都是。

racing field. 竞赛场。

It's a minefield and and you know you have these scared parents are having kid for the first time and they open a book and the start reading how to raise children. I would argue that your natural instincts on what to do with your child, uh, are actually pretty good. It's it's funny when, uh, my wife and I had her first baby, I remember, you know, at the hospital. 这简直是个雷区。想想那些第一次为人父母、战战兢兢的新手爸妈，他们翻开育儿书开始学习如何养育孩子。我倒认为，你对于如何照顾孩子的天然直觉其实相当可靠。说起来很有趣，当我和妻子迎来第一个孩子时，我记得在医院里——

So the first of the natural birth at the birthing center, we we went home. I was like, there you go. That's IT. 在分娩中心完成首次自然分娩后，我们就回家了。我当时心想：好了，就这样。大功告成。

We're like, what do we do? Where's in manually? You taken home and then you relaxing. 我们该怎么办？手动操作在哪里？你带回家然后放松一下。

You actually instinct, ts are pretty good. You know, if the kid cries, check to see the clean freedom, all that. Your basic instincts are actually very, very good. And kids instincts are actually very, very good. They know what they want and they want things . 你的直觉其实相当准确。要知道，如果孩子哭了，检查一下是否尿布干净、是否自由活动这些基本需求。你的本能反应其实非常非常到位。孩子们的本能也同样敏锐——他们清楚自己想要什么，而且他们的需求都有合理解释。

for a reason and they can encourage . 这些本能会促使他们成长。

you to give IT to them. Yes, it's usually children are not deficient adults who can reason uh and to some extent that's true, but mostly it's not true. Mostly they have very good reasons for what they want. 你要把它给他们。是的，通常孩子并非缺乏推理能力的成年人，某种程度上确实如此，但多数情况下并非如此。他们想要的东西大多都有充分的理由。

And you, as a parent, mostly have communication problems with them. They can't yet communicate to you. You can communicate to them. They can communicate to you. So early out with my kids, I tried to focus on teaching them, you know, basic explantatory theories and assume having the number of things. 而作为父母，你主要面临的是沟通障碍。他们还无法向你有效表达。你可以向他们传达信息，他们也能向你传递信号。所以在孩子幼年时，我就着重教导他们基础的解释性理论，并预设他们能理解许多事物。

It's just the most. 这恰恰是最重要的。

the most noval soly. Give you a very simple example. 最具创新性的解决方案。举个最简单的例子。

right? This is, yeah, and this is, this is the how to get rich without getting lucky through. So the first one. 对吧？这就是了，这就是那套"如何不靠运气致富"的方法。首先第一条

a simple one, is, you know, how does knowledge get created? If you follow the critical rational ism David dodge philosophy, then it's by guessing and then by testing your guesses. So whenever they asked me something like body, you think that is, well, how would we figure if that's true, right? So that basic game you can play involving them involving them. But another one is that a lot of the rules that you teach kids have to do with hygiene, but you must brush your teeth, you know cover your mouth when you cough um you know clean up after yourself, don't touch that, wash your hands after you do this um don't eat food off the floor right but all of these are subsumed under the germ theory of disease, right? So if you instead go on youtube and show the videos of germs, or if you have him looking into a microscope at anything. 很简单，你知道知识是怎么产生的吗？如果你遵循批判理性主义——大卫·道奇的哲学观点，那就是先猜想，再验证猜想。所以每当他们问我类似"你觉得这个对吗"时，我就会反问"我们怎么验证这个对不对呢？"这就是可以和他们玩的基本思维游戏。另一个要点是，你教给孩子的很多规则其实都关乎卫生习惯——必须刷牙、咳嗽要捂嘴、自己弄脏的要收拾、别碰那个、做完这个要洗手、不能捡地上的食物吃...但所有这些都可以归结为病菌致病理论。所以不如带他们看 YouTube 上的病菌视频，或者让他用显微镜观察任何东西

creepy call is everywhere. 就会发现恶心的小生物无处不在

and I onta watch out for them. Uh, and then, you know, you can talk about how, if, if you look at humans, like our real enemy of pathogens, I think a lot of aging and diseases, actually downstream of our competition with pathogens over time, a to a point that people still don't fully appreciate. Um there is a red queen hypothesis, which is that we undergo sexual selection to mix up our genes. 我得提防着它们。呃，其实你看啊，人类真正的敌人是病原体——很多衰老和疾病本质上都是人类与病原体长期竞争的副产品，这个关联至今仍未被充分认识。有个"红皇后假说"认为，我们通过性选择来重组基因。

And so every twenty years, every generation mix up jeans. But if you look at how bacteria and viruses mutate through just random mutations, they mix up rate on their genes and evolution rate is roughly the same as ours. Even though they go through thousands of generations, twenty years because they're not doing sexual election, they're doing a sexual replication mutation. 所以每二十年、每一代人都会重组基因。但你看细菌和病毒仅靠随机变异的速度——它们基因重组和进化的速率其实和我们差不多。尽管它们经历了成千上万代繁殖（对人类而言只需二十年），因为它们不进行有性选择，而是通过无性复制突变。

Their evolutionary rate is roughly equivalent to our so we're in a red queen race where where both running at the roughly the same speed using very different strategies. But a lot of how we involved is around pathogens like our immune system is one of the most expensive things around the body is so much is about immune system optimization. That's about pathogens. 它们的进化速率基本与我们持平，所以我们就像在进行红皇后赛跑——双方用完全不同的策略却保持着相近的速度。人类很多进化机制都围绕病原体展开，比如免疫系统就是人体最耗能的构造之一，大量进化都是为了优化免疫系统功能，而这本质上都是为了对抗病原体。

Junk DNA in bacteria, Christopher was discovered because in bacteria, their DNA is evolving fied viruses. And the IT does. That is by taking viral DNA snipping IT up every time there's a val attack and storing IT in their own DNA, they were copy so they can recognize that next time IT attacks and so on. 细菌中的垃圾 DNA，克里斯托弗发现，在细菌中，它们的 DNA 会进化出防御病毒的机制。具体方式是：每当遭遇病毒攻击时，细菌会截取病毒 DNA 片段，将其存储在自己的基因组中作为副本，这样下次遭遇相同病毒时就能快速识别。

Um a lot of the population structure of species uh determines how long their lifespans are so very uh so if if in a given species is a very high rate of infection, then you'll have this order members of the population are Carrying diseases that will then infect the Young. So it's important for that species to get rid of the old faster. So the higher the disease rate in a given population, the less long live the entire population. 物种的种群结构很大程度上决定了它们的寿命长短。如果某个物种的感染率非常高，那么年长个体会携带可能传染给幼体的疾病。因此这类物种需要更快淘汰老年个体。总体而言，种群中疾病传播率越高，整个群体的平均寿命就越短。

So the older ones don't affect the Younger ones that a high um uh homeostasis within the human body, how we're always returning to a given level of things like that, this a fundamental part of a makeup or temperature, PH, blood pressure and sign homeless staes. But if you if you engage a kind of signaling, like you take a pep type, for example, as a signaling molecules hormone externally, the body will counteract IT you take to stop, the body will counteract IT will downgrades on production very fast? And the body releases its own hormones in pulses rather than steady state. 因此年长者不会影响年轻人，人体内保持着高度的稳态平衡，我们总是会回归到特定的生理指标水平，这是构成我们身体的基础部分，比如体温、PH 值、血压等生理信号。但如果你引入某种外部信号分子——比如以肽类激素为例——身体就会迅速对抗这种干预：当你停止摄入时，机体不仅会抵消其影响，还会急速下调自身分泌量。事实上，人体是以脉冲式而非稳态持续释放自身激素的。

Why is that? Well, that's because, uh, bacteria and viruses can infect your body and trick your body that can take IT over that toxic lus. Moses, does this rabies? Does this take over? Microscopic structure, structural bodies and small bacteria and viruses would hack our bodies and literally take them over if we didn't have defense mechanisms. 为何如此？这是因为细菌和病毒能入侵人体，通过欺骗性信号劫持我们的生理系统——狂犬病毒就是如此运作的。这些微生物会攻占我们的微观结构体，如果没有防御机制，这些微小病原体将彻底接管我们的身体。

And one of the defense mechanisms is homeostasis. Anytime you see something getting out of wac, you immediately push back really hard. And because I did, I just get infected or something trying to take me over. 而稳态机制正是重要防线。一旦发现任何异常波动，机体就会强力回击。这种机制的存在，正是为了防止我被感染或被其他生物体接管。

It's also why hormones get released in pulses at night rather than in steady state, low levels because, uh, enemy bacteria can release toxins or the same signal molecules in small qualities, but they can't pulse. They can coordinate to pulse, so your body coordinate the ultra microscopic object, but microscopic objects can coordinate to create the same place. cool. yeah. 这也是为什么激素在夜间以脉冲形式释放，而非保持稳定低水平状态——因为敌方细菌能持续释放少量毒素或相同信号分子，但它们无法形成脉冲。虽然微生物能协调行动制造脉冲效果，但你的身体能协调超微观层面的反应，而微观物体能协同制造相同信号场。很酷对吧？

So this is all means. So you know that it's coming from you. Is that correct? 所以这一切意味着，你能识别这些信号来自自身。对吗？

You think is right than exit. 你认为正确就退出吧。

So I knew that why we resist . 这下我明白我们为何会产生抵抗了。

a lot of exhaustion, ous treatments, a lot of medical treatments don't work um anyway. So this there's a bunch more I can go on, but I think that uh a lot of uh no you you see this in cancers where uh a lot of uh bacteria show up at the FN bar bar shows up in a lot of cancers, you know, now that seems like to get microbiome fluency. 精疲力竭，各种治疗手段，很多医疗方法都无济于事。总之这方面还能展开很多，但你会发现很多癌症病例中——比如 FN 酒吧酒吧菌就常出现在多种癌症里——现在这似乎与微生物组的流动性有关。

So many things, basically, bacteria and viruses are at the top of the food chain compared to us, like we are the top of the well known food chain. But bacteria and viruses eat us. Funs eats us. 本质上，细菌和病毒处于食物链顶端，远高于我们人类。虽然我们自诩为食物链顶层，但细菌病毒其实在吞噬我们。真菌也在蚕食我们。

So these microscopic predators are our natural predators. And so a lot of aging, societal structure hyg e religious structures against pork, you know, circumstance, all of these things, these are all designed to resist spector viruses. So if you can teach children this phone, sophy, in early age, you should cut all the debates. 这些微观掠食者才是我们真正的天敌。因此诸多现象——衰老过程、社会结构、犹太教伊斯兰教对猪肉的禁忌、各种环境因素——本质上都是人类对抗幽灵病毒的设计。若能从小向孩童传授这种生存哲学，就能终结所有争论。

How effective, if you've been a teaching that philosophy to children. 若你一直向孩子们灌输这种哲学观念，效果会如何？

that one, I think i've been pretty effective. I've drill that one at home, the one I haven't quite gotten around to yet as evolution like i'm starting to do little bit that know like we came from monkeys what does that mean um already got them thinking about somebody deeper questions. I did ask my you know Young son like you know can nothing exist? 我觉得这个我做得挺到位的。在家经常练习这个，就是关于进化论那块我还没完全展开，比如我们会从猴子进化而来意味着什么——已经能引发他们思考一些更深层的问题了。我还问过小儿子"虚无可能存在吗"这类问题。

I know that has a fun questions, so I can throw a fun, you know, like four, three h right, what in eight year old, six year old. So asking both, I can, nothing exists and they have pretty good answers, right? Another one we play with the other day was like, what is the matrix and what what is this? What is all this? I just find and it's entertaining. 我知道这些趣味问题很适合拿来逗乐子，比如可以问三四年级或七八岁的孩子。当我同时问他们"虚无存在吗"时，孩子们给出的答案都挺有意思。前几天我们还玩了"什么是母体？这一切是什么？"的游戏，我觉得既有趣又能启发思考。

It's just found to talk about, right, to talk about these questions, to do kids. I'm not saying that one is a good way of child and his leading any deeper learning other than maybe just have them start a or continue to question the basic structure reality and that move past IT so quickly. Also, to take joy. 和孩子们探讨这些问题本身就充满乐趣。倒不是说这种方式能系统性地引导深度学习，但至少能让他们开始（或持续）质疑现实的基本架构——毕竟孩子们总是能飞快跳过表面看本质。更重要的是，要享受这个过程。

you like what what's the metal lesson that's being taught? dad? Dad spends time asking questions to which they are not necessarily and answer because there is something enjoyable in the process of learning. 你喜欢什么？这里传授的核心理念是什么？爸爸？爸爸花时间提出那些未必有答案的问题，因为在学习的过程中本身就蕴含着乐趣。

in trying to decide for what's happening. Possibly also, dad tries not too hard to teach people things . 在试图理解现状时。可能还有，爸爸不会过分刻意地去教导别人。

I don't want to. 我不想这样。

I don't want to be that he helps them to sol problem when you have problems and you constantly have problems, so if you come to dad, dad can help explain to you how he would solve the problem, but most the time they don't want to solve the problem, so sometimes they have to play dumb s like, why is my wife I not working on my computer? I don't know. Did you click on that thing? 我不希望他总是在你遇到问题时帮忙解决，而你却问题不断。所以如果你来找爸爸，爸爸可以解释他会如何解决，但大多数时候他们并不真想解决问题，所以有时不得不装傻——比如"为什么我妻子在我电脑上没法工作？我不知道啊。你点那个东西了吗？"

You've got like a rebellion, sovereign child, sovereign as they may be. But sometimes they still need the yeah yeah that to step. 你就像个叛逆的孩子，再独立也终究是个孩子。但有时他们还是需要那些"对对对"的引导。

So in addition to feeling love in having high south of steam, I think the most important trait that would be nice to not rob them of this agency, I want them to preserve their agency. They're born naturally, agents and willful le, but a lot of child raising beat that added than by essentially domesticating them straight. And I would rather have wild animals involves, then have well trained dogs because i'm not going to be around to take care of them. 除了在高度自主中感受爱意，我认为最重要的是不要剥夺他们的自主权，我希望他们保留这份天性。孩子们生来就是充满主见与倔强的个体，但太多育儿方式通过驯化扼杀了这种特质。我宁愿要野性难驯的狼崽，也不要训练有素的宠物犬——毕竟我不能永远守护在他们身边。

are going to to be . 终将独自面对。

able to look after exactly friend of my partha on on air chat, uh, he had a great saying, he said he wants his uh, children to be quick to learn and hard to kill. 想起我在电台节目里的老友帕塔说过句妙语，他说希望自己的孩子"学得快，命够硬"。

Was pretty good. Yeah, that's cool. I remember you saying just thinking about sort of future and culture and stuff like that. I remember saying that the left ted on the culture war, another just driving around shooting the survivors after the last six months have changed that we've seen in sort of a way we at at the moment what do you think the future of the culture well, looks like . 相当不错。是啊，这很酷。我记得你说过正在思考未来和文化之类的事情。我记得当时提到左翼在文化战争中处于下风，就像开车四处扫射幸存者那样——过去六个月我们目睹的变化，某种程度上改变了现状。你觉得未来的文化格局会是什么样子？

it's not over yet. Um they definitely won earlier around. They took our institutions. I think now it's much more of a fair fight um where you have people like elon, you know I have supporting uh so so there's this different forces through history right historians will argue about this uh but there is a fear of the greek man of history thing where it's like, oh you the eines steins you have the text as you have the um the jack us coins and the scissors right they determine the flow of history and then there's the other uh point of view that no, there are these massive forces at play, you know demographics and geography and so on and then the particular great man doesn't matter, they just come and go in a polian doesn't matter, there would have been somebody else. Uh, the specific named are not important. 事情还没结束。嗯，他们之前确实占了上风，夺走了我们的机构。我认为现在更像是一场公平较量，比如有像埃隆这样的人支持，所以...历史上总有不同的力量在角力对吧，历史学家们会争论不休...但存在这种对"历史伟人论"的担忧——就是那种认为爱因斯坦们、杰克逊们、剪刀手们掌握着文本，决定着历史走向的观点。而另一种观点则认为：不，真正起作用的是那些宏大的力量，比如人口结构、地理因素等等，特定的伟人根本无关紧要，他们不过是昙花一现，换成波利安或其他人也一样。具体是谁的名字根本不重要。

And because of kind of the left just turn that our institutions took in the last few h decades, they now only describe to the great forces theory of history, not the great man theory of history. But I think now we're seeing the two play out where you're seeing tron and the individuals rising up and saying, no, we resist you and I think that unfortunately, into the battle, we look collectivists and grade forces versus individuals. IT is all the humid itself, and and IT is fundamental to the species. 由于我们的机构在过去几十年里采取了某种左倾转向，它们现在只认同历史发展的宏大力量理论，而非伟人史观。但我认为如今我们正目睹这两种理论的角力——你看到强权与挺身而出的个体在对抗，人们高呼"我们拒绝屈服"。可悲的是，这场战役终将演变成集体主义与宏大力量对阵独立个体。这种对抗如同潮湿空气般无处不在，它根植于人类物种的本质之中。

We are not completely individualism species. You know, no man is an ideal, and a single person can do anything by themselves. But we're also not aboard. 我们并非彻底的个体主义物种。要知道，没有人是孤岛，单凭个人无法成就任何伟业。但我们同样不是盲从的羊群。

We're not a beef. We're not an economy. We're not all just drones marching along. 我们不是牲口。不是经济齿轮。更非整齐划一的工蜂。

So which is IT where we are somewhere in the middle. And the human race is always kind of bouncing between the two. We like strong leaders. We like to be LED um we like to ordinate our forces and and mass and and do things um but at the same time, we're also all individuals and willing to break away and willing to do our own thing and everyone's always fighting to be leaders and always status games going on. So uh where there's a pension is always winging back and forth. 那么我们究竟处于何种境地？人类始终在这两者之间摇摆不定。我们崇尚强势领袖，渴望被引领，热衷于集结力量、整合资源、成就事业；但与此同时，我们又是独立个体，随时准备挣脱束缚、坚持己见，人人都在争夺领导权，永不停歇的地位博弈从未止息。这种拉锯战就像钟摆般往复不休。

And in modern economics, the way that manifest is between the marxism and capitalism, right? Marxism is like from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs were all equal. This a milano project. 在现代经济学中，这种矛盾具体表现为马克思主义与资本主义的对立，不是吗？马克思主义主张"各尽所能，按需分配"的平等理想，宛如乌托邦工程。

We're all going to be equal in the end and you know don't try and to stand out but do what's good for everybody um and there's a religious aspect to IT and then the capitalist individualist is like laboratory and every man for itself each do what you want and will work out for the greater good that's adam Smith you know the invisible hand of the market will feed you. The Baker should bake and the bucher should witcher and the the stick makers should make canal sticks and all work out. Each person does their best in their trade and so which is IT, which which which which theory is correct. 我们终将平等，你知道的，别试图标新立异，要做对集体有益的事——这其中带有某种宗教意味。而资本主义个人主义者则像实验室丛林，人人为己，各随己愿，相信最终会实现整体利益最大化。这就是亚当·斯密说的"看不见的市场之手"会供养你：面包师该烤面包，屠夫该宰牲畜，制杖匠该做运河测量杆，各司其职。每个人都在自己的行当里做到最好——那么问题来了，究竟哪种理论是正确的？

And I think there's always going to be a battle between the two. And I think. The interesting thing is what's going on, there's a modern flavor to IT, which changes IT. 我认为这两种理念将永远博弈。而真正耐人寻味的是，当下正出现具有现代特色的新变种。

The modern flavor is that the individual is getting more powerful because they're becoming more leverage. So someone like an elan mosque can have the leverage of tens of thousands of brilliant engineers and producers working for him. He can have factories of robots manufacturing things. 现代特色的核心在于：个体正因获得更强杠杆而变得更有力量。像埃隆·马斯克这样的人，可以调动数万名顶尖工程师和制造者为他工作，可以拥有全自动机器人生产工厂。

He can have hundreds of billions of stars of capital behind him, and he can project himself through media to hundreds amounts of people that is more power than any individual could have had historically. So the great men of history are becoming greater. That said, that same leverage is increasing the gap between the haves and have nots. 他背后可以拥有数千亿的资本星辰，还能通过媒体将自己的影响力投射给数百万人——这种力量是历史上任何个体都未曾拥有的。因此，历史上的伟人正变得愈发伟大。但同样这种杠杆效应，也正在加剧贫富差距。

So in the wealth game, more people are winning. Overall, the average is going up. But in status game, they are essentially more losers. 在财富游戏中，越来越多的人成为赢家。整体而言，平均水平在上升。但在地位游戏中，本质上产生了更多输家。

They are more invisible men and women who are getting nothing out of life. And I have no leverage, relatively speaking. Objectively speaking, they might . 他们是被生活遗忘的隐形男女，相对而言毫无杠杆优势。客观来说，他们或许

be Better off. They still . 过得更好。但他们依然

have phones, and they have tent and winners. And in a democracy, those people will outnumber the winners, and they will vote the winners down. And so that's the battle that kind of goes on and the democracy has gotten very brought. 民众拥有手机，也拥有帐篷和胜利者。但在民主制度下，这些人的数量总会超过胜利者，最终会用选票推翻胜利者。这就是持续上演的斗争，而民主已变得非常扭曲。

And so one of my other quips is that um it's not the right to vote that gives you power. It's power that gives you the right to vote. So we'll confuse the two. 所以我还有个讽刺的说法：并非投票权赋予你权力，而是权力赋予你投票权。我们总是混淆这两者。

So what happened was in a voting started as a way for people who had power to divide up the power, not fight among themselves. The winners of the revolution, the winners of the war, the people in the house of lords and the house of commons, they divide a power among the themselves. They say, hey, we have all the money, we have the power. 投票制度的起源其实是掌权者分配权力的手段，以避免内部争斗。革命的赢家、战争的胜者、上议院与下议院的权贵们，他们瓜分权力时说：看，我们掌控着所有财富和力量。

We are the nights. We have the sorts, we have the warriors. We could kill everybody. 我们是骑士阶级。我们掌握刀剑，拥有武士。我们可以消灭任何人。

We don't want to just fight to all day long. We want to be game of thrones forever. So we might divide up power by body ourselves. But then our society goes on and becomes more and more peaceful. 我们不想整天争斗不休。我们渴望永远玩权力的游戏。因此我们可能会自行分配权力。但随后我们的社会继续发展，变得越来越和平。

That franchise for voting get spread to get spread to people who don't have land, who don't have power, who may not be able to inflict physical violence, and then eventually get to the point where everybody's voting, every boy's voting, everybody is voting for a Candy and fairs, and you all the three things in life, uh, and then eventually people started voting to oppress each other. The fifty one percent in in any domain vote to the the forty nine tyranny majority. But not all of them are wouldn't to back that up with physical power. 选举权逐渐扩展到没有土地、没有权力、可能无法实施身体暴力的人群，最终发展到人人都有投票权，每个男孩都在投票，所有人都在为糖果和游乐设施投票，追求人生三大乐事。但最终人们开始通过投票互相压迫。在任何领域，51%的人会对 49%的人实施多数暴政。不过并非所有人都愿意用武力来支持这种暴政。

And so you can end up in a situation where people who don't have physical power are using the institutions of the state to control the people who do have physical power. As a simple example, taking this, the people who don't have guns voting to disarm the people that do have guns, right? Well, if the people who do have guns get coordinate are enough, you can do that, right? So I think eventually these societal structures are unstable. 最终可能出现这样的情况：没有武力的人利用国家制度来控制拥有武力的人。举个简单例子，没枪的人投票解除有枪之人的武装。但如果持枪者足够团结，你确实可以这样做。所以我认为这些社会结构终究是不稳定的。

They break down. And they break down because eventually the people who have the power and say, no, well met, you don't get to vote. You you only got to vote because you have power. 它们崩溃了。崩溃的原因是最终掌握权力的人会说：不，你无权投票。你之所以能投票，仅仅是因为你拥有权力。

And now you don't have power, you're somehow trying to vote. All of nature, all of society, all of capitalism, all of human endeavors are underpin by physical violence. And that is very hard truth to swallow and hard to get away from. 而当你失去权力时，却试图以某种方式行使投票权。整个自然界、整个社会、整个资本主义体系、所有人类事业都建立在物理暴力基础之上。这是个令人难以接受却又无法逃避的残酷真相。

Nature is reading tooth and claw. If you don't t you don't survive, you live, you die. And that's true of everything alive today, and humans are no different. 自然界奉行弱肉强食法则。不抗争就无法生存，非生即死。这是当今所有生命体的生存法则，人类也不例外。

So giving up physical power and then thinking you can exercise political power failed. Which is why every communist revolution, which is all about equality in combi, I and brother and sisters, end up being run by a bunch of thugs. Because if you don't have a way to divide IT up the wealth based on merit, then is always going to be based on power and influence. 因此，放弃武力却妄想掌握政治权力的尝试终将失败。这正是所有标榜"同志平等"的共产主义革命，最终都被暴徒集团掌控的原因。若无法建立按功绩分配财富的机制，权力与影响力就永远会成为主导法则。

The dogs with the guns always win the end. So the question is just, can you keep the thugs and book with the guns paid and happy and successful society where you allocating based on merit? Because if you can, then you do a bed in power. So I do think that this battle is not over, but that's because IT IT never stopped. It's always been there from day one. 持枪的恶犬终将胜出。核心问题在于：能否在按功绩分配的社会里，既让武装暴徒获得报酬保持满意，又能维持社会良性运转？若能实现，政权便能稳固。这场博弈远未结束——因为它自人类文明诞生之初就从未停歇。

IT will continue. Is IT a battle to not care about the news? In the age of news saturation, all of this stuff headlines twenty four hours a day, stream directly into your consciousness through a device in your pocket. 这场博弈将持续。在资讯爆炸的时代，我们是否应该对新闻保持疏离？当全天候头条通过口袋里的设备不断涌入意识，这种对抗更显迫切。

You, a lot. What we're spoken about today is freedom. Freedom from having to think about things I care about, things you do not have control over all that you shouldn't or that you don't want to. 今天我们讨论的核心是自由。从被迫关注无力掌控、不应或不愿操心的事务中解脱的自由。

yet. People are just like submerged up to the bottom of their nostros, basically drowning in worry. So how yeah is is IT a battle to sort of stay out of the news when you're saturated in IT? 人们就像被淹没到鼻孔底部，基本上被忧虑所吞噬。那么，当你深陷其中时，如何才能避免成为新闻焦点呢？

Yeah mean as you're saying, the human brain is not evolved to handle all the world's emergencies breaking in real time and you can't care about everything and you're going insane if you try um doesn't mean you shouldn't care at all. No should. I mean, if you want to care, go and care. 正如你所说，人类大脑尚未进化到能实时处理全球所有紧急事件的程度，你无法关心所有事情，如果试图这样做只会让自己崩溃——但这并不意味着你应该完全漠不关心。当然应该关心。我的意思是，如果你想关心某件事，那就去关心吧。

I would just say that you're probably Better off only caring about things that are local or things that can affect. So if you really care about something that in the news, then by all means care about IT, but make a difference go do something about IT and make sure that it's your overwhelming desire and you don't have five of the desire at the same time。Um also just really the consequences of IT are going to be happy until that thing gets fixed and that thing will often be at your control. 我想说的是，你最好只关注那些本地化或能产生影响的事情。如果你真的关心新闻中的某件事，那就全力以赴去关心它，但要采取行动做出改变——确保这是你压倒性的唯一渴望，而不是同时怀有五个这样的渴望。另外要明白，在那个问题解决之前，这种关注带来的后果会让你持续处于焦虑状态，而这个问题往往超出你的掌控范围。

Desire is a contract to be unhappy until you get what you want but exit for the most part that something that is in your life. It's like till I lose the weight, until I get the . 渴望就像一份契约：在得到想要的东西之前，你注定不快乐。但大多数情况下，这种渴望针对的是你生活中真实存在的事物。比如"直到我减肥成功"，"直到我获得......"。

job the outside either . 外面的工作也是。

yeah if it's until the carbon dioxide ts per million or below this particular number, like that's a that's a tough . 是啊，如果二氧化碳浓度要降到百万分之几以下这个具体数值，那可真是够难的。

one or all the people who trump arrangement center or right, he's living rent free in their heads and driving them insane. And I get IT I mean there are politicians who would have definitely driven me say as well um but IT comes at a very high cost is something that is out of your control that you cannot really influence um so it's probably good to at least . 那些对特朗普念念不忘的人，无论是极右派还是中间派，他都免费住在他们脑子里，把他们逼疯。我理解这种感受——确实有些政客也会让我抓狂——但为此付出的代价太高了，这完全超出你的控制范围，你根本无法左右局面。所以至少...

be kind this of IT you mentioned a historians before one of my friends has AA question, his equivalent of AP details question, what is that that you believe that most people would disagree with? This is, what do you think is currently ignored by the media, but will be studied by historians. 保持善意吧。你之前提到历史学家，我朋友有个类似 AP 课程深度的问题：你认为当前被媒体忽视，但未来会被历史学家重点研究的是什么？

Hm, you asking me that question right now, what do I think I is ignored by the media. 嗯，你现在问我这个问题，我觉得媒体确实忽视了我。

but that will be studied by historians? 但历史学家会研究这个吗？

Well, I mean, the media is only focused on very timely things, right? So IT IT depends who you want to talk about timely or timeless, right? But as as a simple example, if I just look at things that maybe the next five or ten years that are going to make a massive difference that people are not focused enough on um and I think within two years this will be obvious. So like that, then I make your prediction. Predictions are tough. 我是说，媒体只关注时效性很强的事情，对吧？所以这取决于你想讨论时效性话题还是永恒话题。举个简单例子，如果我关注未来五到十年将产生重大影响、但人们关注不足的事情——我觉得不出两年就会很明显。基于这种情况，我才做出预测。预测本来就是很难的。

but you wait in a . 但你得等上...

few years. So i'm probably wrong. But two things that I pay attention to um that I don't think uh, a lot of people do pay attention to. 几年了。所以我可能错了。但有两件事我很关注，而我觉得大多数人并不太在意。

Well, there's a couple. One is, I think, just how bad modern medicine is. I think people just put a lot more faith in modern medicine. 嗯，主要有两点。第一是现代医学有多糟糕。我觉得人们对现代医学过度信任了。

Then is warrant ted like our best ideas for a lot of things or surgery, just cutting things out, uh, treating things that are extra anise like, oh, you don't really need a gold blade, you don't really need a pendus, so you don't really need TCL or that's false. Every little human bodies, very fishing, all those things are needed. You know, I think, I think the state of modern medicine are pretty bad. 其次是，我们对于很多疾病的最佳治疗方案就是手术切除——比如"你其实不需要胆囊""不需要阑尾""不需要扁桃体"这种说法都是错误的。人体每个微小器官都精妙运作，这些组织都有其存在必要。我认为现代医学的发展水平实在堪忧。

We don't have many good explanatory theories in biology. Um we have germ theory disease. We have a evolution. 我们在生物学领域缺乏完善的理论体系。目前只有病菌致病论和进化论这些基础理论。

We have, uh south theory, we have DNA genetics. A more genesis and biogenesis, not much else, not much else. Everything else is rules of the memorization a effects b is defect sea effects d. But we don't understand the underlying explanation. It's all just words point to words point to words. 我们有南方理论，有 DNA 遗传学。更多的是创生论和生物发生论，除此之外就没什么了，真的没别的了。其他一切都只是死记硬背的规则——A 导致 B，B 导致 C，C 导致 D。但我们并不理解背后的原理。这一切不过是词语指向词语再指向词语的文字游戏。

So biology is still in a very sorry state and because we are not like to take risk that might kill people, um we just don't experiment enough and biology so a lot of treatments are just out right band by large ing a tree body. So we just don't have the innovation. So I think we are still the stone age when IT comes to biology, and we ve got a long way to go. 所以生物学仍处于非常原始的阶段。由于我们不愿冒可能致人死亡的风险，在生物学领域我们实验得远远不够。许多治疗方法完全是在用蛮力对抗人体系统。我们缺乏真正的创新。我认为在生物学领域，我们仍处于石器时代，还有很长的路要走。

And I think people will look back a gas at this and I think this is brian johns's point. He's like let's be more more extreme left a little IT, be more experimental and I all start this end of one to start experimenting on myself in um but even there I disagree with brian and many things like, you know taking a huge amount of supplements. I think we just don't know supplements outside the natural context, like just deliver man, right um but it's fine and and I ouldn't be vegan either, but II really appreciate that his experimenting is good. 我认为后人回顾这个时代时会感到震惊——这也是布莱恩·约翰斯的观点。他说我们应该更激进些，更偏向实验主义。我自己也开始尝试在身上做实验...但即便在这方面，我也不同意布莱恩的许多做法，比如服用大量营养补充剂。我认为我们根本不清楚这些脱离自然背景的补充剂会有什么效果，就像直接往血管里注射一样。虽然我不会选择纯素食主义，但我非常欣赏他这种实验精神。

Nature about me shares everything, so we need more people like that. Um so I think the state of biology people will look back and say, well, that was in the dark ages. Um I think um another another thing that will look back on and I think we still have important drones are gonna in warfare. 大自然对我毫无保留，因此我们需要更多这样的人。嗯，所以我认为未来的生物学研究者回顾当下时会说，那真是个蒙昧的时代。另外我觉得还有一件事会被后人审视——目前战场上仍占据重要地位的无人机。

The future of all warfare is drones. There will be nothing else in the battle field um because I think of the n state of drones as autonomous bullets, not even guide autonomous like there's self directed. Uh and so if that's the future we're . 未来所有战争都将由无人机主宰。战场上将不会出现其他作战单位，因为在我看来，现代无人机就像是自主飞行的子弹，甚至不需要制导，完全能自我定向。如果这就是我们正在奔赴的未来...

headed towards . 那么航空母舰、坦克、无数士兵...

and that is aircraft Carriers, tanks, infinity men, they're just going to be autonomous bullets by autonomous butts against your autonomous bullets, whichever ones the wind the other side just surrender is over. Um I think that's a second piece of IT. I think AA third piece that is going to be uh kind of unexpected is the GLP ones, which I know you I privately discussed before. 都将沦为自主子弹的靶子——用你的自主子弹对抗敌方的自主子弹，哪一方弹尽粮绝就直接投降，战争就此结束。我认为这是第二项关键技术。第三项可能出人意料的会是 GLP 技术（我知道我们私下讨论过这个）。

I think these are the most breakthrough drugs since any biotics um they're probably more important than status s their sort of miracle drugs. They seem to there are downsides, but the downside effects are some liner compared to the upsides beyond just weight loss. Um they also seem to be addiction brokers. They seem to lower many kinds of cancer. They almost metall icc reverse aging. Up to a certain point um and I think they're to be the curve on health care costs and h the big question people can be asking or the next five years, why are americans paying thousands of dollars and months for this when people overseas are getting them for free or I can order them from china for free or whatever? 我认为这些是自生物制剂问世以来最具突破性的药物，它们可能比常规药物更重要，堪称奇迹药物。虽然存在副作用，但与减肥之外的诸多益处相比，这些副作用显得微不足道。它们似乎还能阻断成瘾机制，降低多种癌症发病率，甚至能在某种程度上逆转衰老。我相信这些药物将改变医疗成本的曲线——未来五年人们可能会追问：为什么美国人要花费数千美元和数月时间获取这些药物，而海外民众却能免费获得？甚至可以从中国免费订购？

Um and maybe uh like if I were berny Sanders, the platform I would be running on, as I would say, okay, we're going na pay for us you know hundreds of billions of dollars to novo and and words can make these free or this hundreds of analysts with these things that were if they are not going to be you know limited to just the few that are that are being used today, just take one of them or two of them can free. And I think you make a big difference. And uh, as you and I were discussing earlier, uh, this does spend a lot of people at a shape who got to the old fashion way. And they want to see obesity as a moral fAiling on people's . 呃，如果我是伯尼·桑德斯，我会这样搭建竞选纲领——听着，我们要投入数千亿美元给诺和诺德这类药企，让这些新型减肥药免费普及。这些药物不该只局限于现在少数人使用，哪怕先免费开放其中一两种，都能带来巨大改变。就像我们之前讨论的，这确实会让很多通过传统方式减肥的人感到不安，他们总把肥胖归咎于个人意志力问题。

parts and IT . 零部件与 IT 系统。

lose their status if they are a nal indo possible cancer. Have fun losing bone and muscle mass. But then none of that stuff is really true. 若成为晚期癌症患者，他们将失去原有社会地位。尽情享受骨质流失和肌肉萎缩吧。不过这些说法其实都站不住脚。

The cancer stuff is actually beneficial on, I know people who are now taking these things for anti aging reasons. Um they're already fit but they just want to age Better and have a stronger and slow metabolism. Um and there's evidence now these things um you know they put off dementia, alzheimer's, colon cancer, it's insane, cardiovascular disease like that. 实际上这类抗癌药物大有益处，我认识有人正为抗衰老服用它们。这些人本身身材匀称，只是希望延缓衰老、保持更强健体魄和更缓慢的新陈代谢。现有证据表明，这些药物能推迟痴呆症、阿尔茨海默病、结肠癌等疾病的发作，对心血管疾病的预防效果更是惊人。

The list of benefits is insane. There's no free lunch, but this is a classic drugs that prevents you from taking other drugs into your body. IT prevents you from taking, uhh, you know, too much sugar, too much, too many calories and euro abundance prevents you from smoking, prevents you from even, uh, there is an organization called kasper that is not doing a study on heroin addictions and they're showing that this can lower uh, oppoi overdoses and iron editions. 其益处清单令人震撼。天下没有免费午餐，但这是一种能阻止你摄入其他有害物质的经典药物。它能防止你摄取过量糖分、卡路里，抑制暴饮暴食的冲动；甚至能阻止吸烟行为——有个名为 Kasper 的组织正在研究其对海洛因成瘾的影响，数据显示该药物可降低阿片类药物过量及铁剂中毒风险。

So there's a lot of overwhelmed medical evidence coming out. And I think II don't know the exact number, but I think something like ten percent of the population might not have tried. I think the that I think it's about . 大量压倒性的医学证据正在涌现。虽然不清楚具体数字，但我认为约 10%的人群可能尚未尝试。据我估算，这个比例大概在...

fifty percent of the population say that they would like to try IT. 50%的人口表示他们愿意尝试沉浸式翻译技术。

exactly. So I think the body positivity movement is dead. We always kind of knew was a scared. 没错。所以我认为身体积极性运动已经消亡了。我们其实一直隐约知道这是个噱头。

I mean, it's dying very. 我是说，它正在快速消亡。

very quickly, I quipped, like, you can never be too rich, too fine or too clean, right? And immediately, like a whole budge, people went none, only my mentions. Like, what do you mean to thin? And what about the hygiene y pothead is? And you know, obviously exceptions. "就像人们常说的，钱永远不嫌多，身材永远不嫌瘦，卫生永远不嫌干净，对吧？"我打趣道。结果立刻引来一群人的反驳——当然只在我的评论区里。他们嚷嚷着："什么叫太瘦？""那些卫生习惯差的瘾君子又怎么说？"你也知道，总有些例外情况。

People want to be thin fit and people want to be cleaned back to the passage and discussion that we had. So I think overall, that there is going to be huge demand for these things, and our modern medical system is not built to supply these. Well, i'm III don't hold that against the farmers. 人们渴望苗条健美，也渴望回归我们之前讨论的那种洁净状态。总体而言，我认为这些需求将会非常庞大，而我们现有的医疗体系并未为此做好准备。不过，我并不会因此责怪制药厂商。

I think the farmers did their job by creating the thing. But I think next we need to step up and figure how to make IT broadly and cheaply available as opposed to you just milk IT for only for you know, people on obesity, you can get medicare to sign off for IT or people paying out of pocket at a very, very high Price. Yeah, the benefits of societal distribution of the safer G, L, P. Ones is so large that whatever politicians are tackles, that is going to be Richard rewarded. 我认为制药厂商完成了他们的使命——研发出了这些产品。但接下来我们需要思考的是：如何让这些药物广泛普及且价格亲民，而不是仅服务于特定群体——比如依赖医保报销的肥胖患者，或是那些需要自费承担高昂药价的人群。更安全的 GLP-1 类药物若能实现社会普惠，其效益将如此巨大，任何推动此事的政客都将获得丰厚回报。

But obesity is the number source of malnutrition worldwide. This twice as many people that are obese than are starving. So about half a billion people are starving . 但值得注意的是，肥胖已成为全球营养不良的首要诱因。当前肥胖人口数量是饥荒人口的两倍——全球约有 5 亿人正在挨饿。

in a billion people. Problems are downstream of that. Like you look at how much of the federal budget causing diospolis kidney failure and why diabetes. So so many of the problems that we have in my side of a down's stream of obesity, and you know this like fitness is so important. 在十亿人口中。问题都是由此衍生而来的。比如你看看联邦预算中有多少是用于治疗糖尿病导致的肾衰竭。我们面临的诸多问题，肥胖就是根源所在，而健身的重要性不言而喻。

And yes, there's in some people, these things called me, caused muscle and bone loss, but not in the people who reading high protein, working out hard so they can be taken away. That's safer. And some versions of these, like a little glue tie, the original one, they've been around for decades. 确实有些人会出现所谓的"我"症状——肌肉和骨骼流失，但那些摄入高蛋白、坚持高强度锻炼的人就不会受影响。这类药物更安全。其中某些版本，比如最初的小分子 GLP-1 类药物，已经存在了几十年。

And the others have been run for about a decade. And we already have, as you said, ten percent of population taking them. So they are already quite widely direct. 其他版本也已有约十年临床应用。正如你所说，现在 10%的人口都在使用这类药物，说明它们已经相当普及了。

Good sample size. Yeah it's a great sample size. More do you need like if if you if you have a back turn infection that's eating you, I don't say, oh, I have this. 样本量足够大了。确实是非常大的样本量。还需要多少呢？就像如果你遭遇了致命的细菌感染，难道还要说"我先观察观察"吗？

Anybody please not raise your blood pressures that if you're gonna kill yourself, I say take this anecdotic and stay alive longer and solve IT I don't say, oh, it's gonna cause your heart rate to go up by three beats a minute. I don't worry about that. So similarly, if you're poisoning yourself with toxins and overuse of substances, you shouldn't be using either hero and alcohol, cigarettes, sugar or just sheer calories. 各位请别激动，如果你有轻生念头，我建议服用这种辅助药物延长生命去解决问题——而不是纠结"这会让心率每分钟增加三次"这种细枝末节。同理，如果你正用毒素和滥用物质毒害自己，无论是海洛因、酒精、香烟、糖分还是纯粹的热量过剩，这些都应该戒除。

Um take this GLP one. Uh they also improved digestion. You just have less, less food matter going to demise the lower cancer risks across the board. 服用这类 GLP-1 药物还能改善消化功能。进入肠道的食物残渣减少后，整体癌症风险都会降低。

There's quite a few cancers. The lower um cardiff aska. II mean, I don't know what else to . 涉及到的癌症种类相当多。比如降低...呃卡迪夫...具体我也说不上来。

tell you have been very surprised by the negative reception whenever you have a conversation about GLP ones. And I think a lot of maybe . 每次讨论 GLP-1 药物时遭遇的负面反响都让我很惊讶。我认为很多反对意见可能...

people who in do . 那些正在行动的人。

well think about . 好好想想。

how many sacred cows are being gored, right? All the people who are basically saying, uh, you should work harder, you should be fit like I did, right? It's lerrys their status. Think about all the nutritionists and doctors and trainers who are now being, you know, it's too easy there have been put out of business in a way, right uh, it's like what does the american military keep buying aircraft Carriers right in nature of drones um is an incentive bias is a very strong motivated reasoning. Uh but IT doesn't matter, ten percent people on IT uh everybody wants to be fit. 有多少神圣不可侵犯的观念正在被颠覆，对吧？所有那些基本上在说"你应该更努力工作，应该像我一样保持身材"的人，对吧？这是在动摇他们的地位。想想所有那些营养师、医生和健身教练，他们现在某种程度上说太容易被淘汰了，对吧？就像美国军方为什么还在不断购买航空母舰，而无人机的本质就是一种激励偏差，这种动机推理非常强烈。但这不重要，有百分之十的人在做这件事，每个人都想保持身材。

It's going to spread like welfare. I was just thinking, as you were talking, that you know we think about health and a lot of people kind of get captured, by the way, that they were brought up the the habits that they had from the childhood or what mom, dad did or genetic predisposition and stuff like that. I think um you have as many reasons as as many people to sort of feel hard done by by chAllenges that you had earlier on in in your life is getting past your past a skill so if not being owned today by your history, so of not having that hood mentality. 它会像福利一样蔓延开来。我刚才就在想，当你在说的时候，我们考虑健康问题时，很多人其实被他们成长过程中的习惯所束缚——无论是童年养成的习惯、父母的做法，还是基因倾向之类的东西。我认为，每个人都有各自的理由，觉得自己被早年生活中的挑战亏待了。关键在于超越过去的技能，不要被历史所束缚，不要固守那种"出身决定论"的心态。

Yeah I did have a tough childhood, but I don't think about IT. You know I think there are a couple of things going on there. One is I did process that quite a bit. 是的，我确实有过艰难的童年，但我不会沉溺其中。我认为这其中有两层原因：其一是我已经对此进行了充分的心理调适。

I thought about IT, but I thought about IT to get rid of IT. I don't think about IT to do on IT. Yeah, I wanted to be successful. 我曾思考过这段经历，但思考的目的是为了摆脱它。我并非要通过它来定义自己。没错，我渴望获得成功。

I wanted more than anything else to rise, pass that. And so I couldn't have that as a burden on me. So I to get rid of IT. 我最强烈的愿望就是超越过去，跨越那道坎。因此我不能让它成为我的负担，所以我选择摆脱它。

So to the extent that I dealt with IT, IT was IT was for the express purpose of getting rid of IT, not to create identity or story or reflect upon IT, or to say, look at me. Look at what i've accomplish. Look how great I am, what i've done. 即便我处理过这段经历，那也是为了彻底摆脱它——不是为了塑造身份认同、不是为了编织故事、不是为了反复回味，更不是为了炫耀：看看我，看看我的成就，看看我有多厉害。

I got rid of IT. And I think at some point you restful with that thing. And I just realized you're never gna tangle. The whole thing is a problem. 我摆脱了它。我想总有一天你会对那件事释怀。而我刚刚意识到你永远无法理清头绪。整件事就是个麻烦。

Uh, like Alexander, you fun that tangled not in india and uh, that said, oh, the famous conquer will come and will untie this. Not nobody just can until not take one look at a pull out the store, just cut IT. So at some point you have to cut your past. 就像亚历山大大帝那样，面对那个无人能解的高尔丁死结，他直接挥剑斩断。有时候你必须斩断自己的过去。

If your past is bothering you, you will eventually get tired to try to tangle that not, and you will just drop IT because you will. Real life is short, and the more you have more you want to accomplish in this life, actually, the last time you have to unravel that thing. So I just wanted to actually get things done. 当过往不断困扰你时，你终会厌倦纠缠，选择放手。生命短暂，抱负越多，就越没时间纠结往事。我只想专注完成当下重要的事。

So I had no time to deal with that. I just cut IT. It's like a really bad relationship, but in this case, a bad relationship with their own history. 所以我没空处理那些牵绊，直接斩断就好。这就像一段糟糕的感情，只不过这次是与自己历史的糟糕关系。

So you just drop IT. Yeah, I think you know so much of what we spoken about today is on the shortness of life and the fact that every moment is precious you have to take about that. The most fundamental resource in your life is not time and attention. 该放手时就放手。今天我们讨论的核心，其实都关乎生命短暂这个事实——每个瞬间都弥足珍贵。人生最根本的资源不是时间，而是专注力。

right? I used to think of the currency of life, right? People think it's money. And yes, money is important. And he does let you trade certain things for a time. 对吧？我曾思考生命的货币是什么？人们总以为是金钱。确实，金钱很重要。它能让你用时间换取某些东西。

But IT doesn't really buy you time as warn buffs how much time money can buy you. Or Michael bloomberg, they are, you know, richest cw and crisis, but they can buy more time, right? Brian Johnson not withstanding. 但金钱买不到真正的时间——看看沃伦·巴菲特或迈克尔·布隆伯格，这些顶级富豪也无法用财富换取更多生命时长，布莱恩·约翰逊的抗衰老实验另当别论。

Um so you can't trade money for time. Money is not the real currency of life and time itself. Does that mean that much? Because as we talked about before, a lot of time can be wasted because you're not really present for IT, you're not paying attention. 既然金钱换不来时间，而时间本身也未必绝对珍贵——正如我们之前讨论的，大量时间可能因心不在焉而被虚掷。

So the real currency of life is attention, is what you choose to pay attention to and and and what you do about IT. And so back to the point about the news media, you can put your attention on the news, but that's how you're spending the real currency of life. So just be aware of that if you want to. 因此生命的真正货币是注意力，是你选择聚焦的事物及随之采取的行动。回到新闻媒体的话题，你可以消费注意力在新闻上，但这本质上是在挥霍生命的硬通货。所以请务必清醒意识到这一点。

That's fine. There's no no right or wrong here like maybe IT is your destiny to pick something in the news, to learn about that problem, adopt that problem and solve IT. But just be careful because your attention is the only thing that you have and . 没关系。这里没有对错之分，或许你的使命就是选择新闻中的某个事件，了解那个问题，接纳并解决它。但请务必谨慎，因为你的注意力是你唯一拥有的东西。

that can also be capture by your own past. Yes. 这也可能被你的过往所困。是的。

you can filter IT away anything you'd like if you're . 如果你愿意，可以过滤掉任何你不想要的内容。

an advantage to starting out as a loser. 从失败者起步反而是一种优势。

Ah absolutely yeah yeah because of you because if you are loser, then you will want to be a winner and then you'll develop all the characteristics that'll help you be a quote and quote winner in life. That said, I wouldn't sense my kids to IT I don't think can artificially do that. 啊，完全没错！因为如果你是个失败者，你就会渴望成为赢家，然后培养出那些能让你成为所谓"人生赢家"的特质。不过话说回来，我可不会故意让自己的孩子去经历失败——我觉得人为制造这种境遇不太合适。

It's it's like imagine that you you know three hundred years ago you're born to surf and then somehow you managed to escape off the farm and you become a landowner and that eventually you become minor ability to you going to put your kids back on the farm so you're going to be a surfer again. I know they all like those stories. The kids themselves like those stories because he says, I came from the school head. 这就像想象一下，三百年前你生来就该冲浪，却不知怎么从农场逃了出来，成了地主，最终你获得了些许能力，又要把孩子送回农场——于是你又得重新当回冲浪者。我知道他们都爱听这类故事。孩子们自己也喜欢这些故事，因为他说：我可是从校长办公室闯出来的人。

We go shovel hay for a summer. It's not real. I mean like trick them. Um I think what you can all you can do is kind of uh cultivate and appreciation and gratitude for what you have. 我们整个夏天都在假装铲干草。这不是真的。我的意思是像在糊弄他们。嗯，我觉得你们能做的就是培养对现有生活的感恩之心。

And the only way to do that is just evidence at yourself, right? Just show yourself how you spend money. How you respect is what you do with that, how you take care of people who you responsible for. 唯一的方法就是直面自己的证据，对吧？审视自己的消费方式。你如何支配金钱，如何对待那些你负有责任的人。

The more resources you have, the greater the tribe you can take care of, the more of the tribe you can take care of. So when you have no resources, you struggling to take care yourself. And at that point, it's good to be selfish because you can't save somebody else if you can even save yourself, yes, so you take care of yourself and you become the best version of yourself. 你拥有的资源越多，能照料的群体就越大。当你一无所有时，连自顾都艰难。这时候自私点没错——如果连自己都救不了，遑论救人？所以先照顾好自己，成为最好的自己。

But there are too many men who are able fit and have some money, who are doing nothing with their lives. They are just sitting at home doing nothing, just indulging in themselves, move to going dates, and they get ash. Like, I have no respect for that, I think is nothing worse than society than a lazy man because he's so of he's sort of leaving at all on the table. Leaving his potential in the table was bad for him. 但太多身强体壮、小有积蓄的男人虚度光阴。他们宅家无所事事，沉溺享乐，沉迷约会，最终沦为废柴。这种人我最瞧不起——社会最糟莫过于懒汉，因为他们把天赋潜能统统荒废，既害己又害人。

So the next thing you do is you go in your family and you take care of your family, take care that tribe, then you take care of extended family, take care your thousands, brothers, uncles, grandmother's s aunts, you know sisters, everybody that you can, and then if you have more research beyond, then you go take care of your local tribe, take care of your people um you start trying to do some good for the world if you have more resort that you go take here and you and bigger try and that's how you earn both respect and self confidence and you live up to your potential. So the the more you have, the more is rightfully expected of you. And I think it's a good compact with society when highly capable of people express and flex that capability by giving more and more and by doing more and more. 那么接下来你要做的，就是回归家庭并照料家人，守护你的小家族，继而关照整个大家庭——照顾数以千计的兄弟叔伯、祖母姑姨、姐妹同胞等所有你能顾及之人。若还有余力，就去关照本地族群，守护你的同胞。当你拥有更多资源时，便开始尝试为世界做些善事，不断拓展善行范围。正是通过这种方式，你既能赢得尊重又能建立自信，充分发挥自身潜力。能力越大，责任自然越重。我认为当高能者通过持续奉献与作为来展现其才能时，这便形成了与社会的美好契约。

And society rewards them with the one thing they can get othe wise of the status, right? Society should give you status exchange for IT. They should say, okay, you did a good job you to care more people than than just yourself and just did people immediate around you and that's what an alphabetic ale to me is. 而社会回馈给他们的，正是其他途径难以获得的地位，不是吗？社会理应以地位作为这种付出的交换。人们会说：做得很好，你关怀的远不止自身和身边少数人。这在我看来正是领袖风范的体现。

An alpha male is not the one who gets to eat first. The alpa a male eats last. The male feeds everybody else first and then gets to eat last. And they do that out of their own self respect and pride. And the city rewards them by calling them an out and giving them status. 真正的领袖并非优先享用食物的人。阿尔法雄性会最后进食，他会先让其他成员吃饱，然后才轮到自己。这种行为源于他们内心的自尊与骄傲。而群体则通过赋予他们"首领"头衔和崇高地位来回报这种奉献。

I wonder whether some of the push back that we've got against a rich, wealthy, powerful people is disincentive. 我在想，社会上某些对富豪权贵的抵触情绪，是否反而削弱了他们回馈社会的动力。

Zing ah IT is like, who is a zc? You know, doing money is zac over general hospital and they want to pull his name off of IT. 就像 IT 界的扎克伯格，你知道的——那个在综合医院捐钱做慈善的扎克，现在他们却想把他名字从 IT 荣誉榜上撤下来。

I mean that I just say, but stop . 我的意思是...算了，当我没说。

backfires, right? You you should reward people for . 适得其反了，对吧？你应该奖励那些...

doing what you think folding. Don't in t actually actively avoided castigating people if you want the behavior to change when they get something wrong, reinforcing IT when they get something right. 按照你期望的方式行事的人。不要在他们犯错时一味惩罚——若想改变行为模式，就该在他们做对时强化正向反馈，做错时避免苛责。

It's happening at the society level as well, correct? I mean, the guys make a lot of money and go up by sports teams. I won't do that right. But the one who goes out and builds a hospital or bills a rocket to take people to the moon, you know, rest you a question as you should be rewarding him for that. 这种现象在社会层面同样存在，不是吗？比如那些靠体育团队赚得盆满钵满的家伙，我可不认同这种做法。但那些建造医院或研发登月火箭的人，才真正值得嘉奖——这难道不该获得回报吗？

Well, I really appreciate I hope that this is lift up to whatever weird daydreams you've been having um what have you got coming up? welcome. People expect from you over the next, however. 非常感谢你的分享，希望这些观点能为你天马行空的遐想注入新灵感。对了，接下来有什么计划？大家都很期待你未来会带来怎样的惊喜呢。

expect nothing. 别无所求。

That's the most noval way that we could have finished, did it's it's been a long time coming. I really do appreciate you for being today. 这是我们能想到的最新颖的告别方式，这段旅程确实酝酿已久。真心感谢你今日的相伴。

but I do hope to deliver something. I thank you. So thank you. Thanks for having. Thanks for getting in my mind and hopefully you . 但我仍希望能有所馈赠。谢谢你。由衷感谢。感谢相遇。感谢你走进我的思绪，愿你也...

i'll see I might be even worse now you've got the real memories to stick. 我现在可能更糟了，因为你已经拥有了真实的记忆可以依靠。

I know the reason to win the game is to be free of IT done with right wall. You made IT to the end. congratulations. 我知道赢得游戏的意义在于摆脱它，正确地完成那堵墙。你成功坚持到了最后。恭喜你。

If you enjoyed you gna love my full length conversation with the one and only a landa button from the school of life right now. Go on. 如果你喜欢这个，你一定会爱上我与来自"人生学校"的独一无二的阿兰达·巴顿的完整对话。现在就去看看吧。